Deaths and Injuries of the Israel/Palestine Conflict prior to the Oct 2023 war

As The Intercept pointed out this week, this is Israel's 9/11 in that it is a horrific event they didn't see coming, but when you stop to look at the powder keg they created, they absolutely should have.

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And just like 9/11, they were warned of the attack weeks in advance but were still woefully unprepared to protect their citizens.

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- I'm worried that they DID know, and are using this as an excuse to further their agenda against Palestinians.
  
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- And just like 9/11, their response is sowing death to countless civilians.
  
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- It's not that easy. There is constant information coming in all the time and intelligent agents need to parse signal from noise. It's not every single bit of intelligence regarding an attack comes into fruition. In fact, it's quite the opposite. This is an extremely difficult signal detection problem, one with lives at stake.
  
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when you stop to look at the powder keg they created

Wait until you expand it by a few more years:

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The bigger problem is that they probably knew. They where informed by Egypt intelligence...

If that is true, then they might have let it happen as an excuse to take Gaza in retribution

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- Let's not spread conspiracy theories without good sources
  
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- So, Israel's 9/11 then? It wasn't a coincidence that NORAD was on training exercises that day.
  
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Permanently Deleted

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- By not forcing Palestinians out of their homes to house Americans: https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/5/4/if-i-dont-steal-your-home-someone-else-will-jewish-settler-says
  
  By not voting in a government that openly supports the eradication of a people that they claim are not a culture: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/no-such-thing-as-palestinian-people-top-israeli-minister-says
  
  By not commuting further war crimes by doling our collective punishment on civilians: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/israel-opt-israel-must-lift-illegal-and-inhumane-blockade-on-gaza-as-power-plant-runs-out-of-fuel/
  
  This video was posted in May 2021, and is still relevant: https://youtu.be/INCXqWzH5vk?si=xxvSkiBcRtkZwZVa
  
  War crimes are being committed on both sides, but one side is in a far better political, economic, and defensive position. Treaties and councils have been written, but if the stronger party decides they want to break those agreements, and suffers no repercussions from doing so (so far as having essentially full support from the US government at one point), what can the smaller group do? Roll over and let their people be extinguished by a callous and racist government?
  
  I do not condone attacks from either side, but saying that Palestine is “suffering the consequences”, while ignoring the actions that led to this attack (which could be seen as Israel suffering their own consequences) is short sighted and cruel.
  
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- I’m sure they put it up to a democratic vote and only went through with it after getting the unanimous agreement of every single Palestinian in Gaza.
  
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- You are speaking of Palestinians as a monolith. If you apply the same logic to Israelis, Palestinians are perfectly justified in attacking them. Hamas and Likud are both terrorist organizations. Targeting civilians is a war crime no matter who does it or why they say it's justified.
  
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- I know I’m taking to a shill or a bot or just someone who isn’t actually aware of what’s going on, but you’re grossly misinformed.
  
  Is this your default reaction to seeing something you disagree with?
  
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- "Oh wow can't wait to log onto Lemmy and justify mass murder today"
  
  Do us all a favour and delete your account
  
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Damn this is going to still be going on in 2121?

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Israel will almost certainly have wrapped up their genocide long before that.

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Looks like it.

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Still way too one sided against Israel

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How people fail to notice sarcasm is beyond me

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- No /s, no sarcasm.
  
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- Just basic heuristics really. With just cold text, it's impossible to be sure.
  
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Check your axes. You have 2x 25,000s. I genuinely want to know how on someone can create a chart with this kind of error these days. Surely you’re not adding axis labels with a graphics tool after the initial generation. Right?

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I was curious about looking at some recent data being visualized. specifically a percentage of population estimate for the varied areas. (injuries , deaths, missing) anyone know of some credible data sets for some of this info? if I wasn't at the bar, I'd try to tease it out myself.

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Edit: if any of the downvoters would take a moment to reply letting me know what they think I meant by this comment that would be much appreciated. Frankly, I’m a bit lost.

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I think that the downvotes come from a place of not understanding what this comment tries to imply, hence not adding anything to the conversation.

For example. Someone can read this and think "Context matters, so that's why Hamas did what they did, and what they did is fine and I stand with them"

Another person could read "Context matters, it doesn't matter what Isarael did before, Hamas still did something unforgivable and Israel is still right and I stand with them"

Ultimately, at least for me, it's hard to see what you're trying to say with this comment, especially when the situation is so nuanced. At least that's how I saw it.

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Edit: if any of the downvoters would take a moment to reply letting me know what they think I meant by this comment that would be much appreciated. Frankly, I’m a bit lost.

Probably since you stressed the importance of context and refused to give any context

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- I meant it in the exact way OP did. Which is that these recent deaths aren’t a whole lot in context.
  
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God people like you are insufferable.

Easy block.

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- ?
  
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15 years is a woefully short time frame to look at in a conflict that goes back hundreds if not thousands of years...

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This conflict started in the late 40s. Less than 100 years.

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- Still it would probably be good to have the graph go back 70 years to when it started.
  
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- I mean I'm not gonna waste my time trying to educate you on this but you're wrong. Go read some books, watch some lectures, listen to some podcasts.
  
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it's not in timeframe of millennia.

do you think the recent conflict can tracked back to biblical times when prophet Moses lived?

so many things happened in that region, that includes there was a peace in that region for a time to time.

the recent conflict can be tracked at WW I, when British Empire take over that region from Ottoman Empire and they drew the lines and promised two ethnic groups of the same region.

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- WW I was over a hundred years ago. My point stands that only considering 15 years is a very myopic view on the region.
  
  Can THIS conflict he traced back to biblical times? (By the way, it may even be selling yourself short to stop at Moses... but that leads to the question of how back do you draw the line of relevance...) no of course not. Realistically, while I'm inclined to look back to the late 1800s and early 1900s, there's no one alive today that was alive at that time. 1 or 2 generations later can you expect everyone to forget the events of the past? Maybe not.
  
  It's a really classic example (maybe THE classic example) of violence begetting violence. Unfortunately the violent tendencies and hatred are institutionalized. It's clearly not an easy problem to solve, but I'm fairly certain that violent terrorist attacks against civilians is not in the running for a solution.
  
  EDIT: just to add, going back a thousand years takes us to the time of the crusades, during and after which there were Arab attacks driving out non-arabs... and Arab attacks against other Arab factions (not blind to the fact that all Arabs are not a monolithic group).
  
  Going back a little further you have a history of violence and discrimination against the Jews and Arabs (and pagans and other people) by the Roman's. You can see how hard it is to find a stopping point in the history of violence in the region.
  
  So yes while the CURRENT conflict probably only tracks back a hundred or so years, the history of conflict in general in the region goes back thousands of years (probably 4 thousand years but im not sure there are even stories, much less even somewhat reliable historical accounts that go back much further than that).
  
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Hamas is a death cult openly using human shields, so no surprise really.

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That doesn't really mean much to Americans. Christianity is a death cult.

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Hamas is Jihadist and extremist. It would have been a fatal mistake for Israel to support them to undermine the secular movement for a free palestine. Trying to position Hamas between international support and the palestinian people sounds like a really cynical and bad idea.

There is no way the hard right in Israel would ever pursue such an agenda.right?

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Lol human shields stupidest shit I’ve ever heard

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- What do you think the hostages they took were for? Aside from later rape after they were tired from all the initial raping and pillaging.
  
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Israel: Uses Iron dome to protect civilians, counter attacks when attacked

Palestine: We have more victims 😢

This kind of visualization is not aiming to be informative. It's trying to be a propaganda and I genuinely hate that.

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"the facts don't align with the narrative I've selected! Clearly this must be propaganda"

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Would you mind parsing that out a little further? Surely you're not saying that it's fine that the IDF is killing almost 500x the number of civilians Hamas are because they have the iron dome, and pointing out this fact is propagandistic?

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- 100% not agreeing with this person, but I think their point is that if Hamas attacks, their attacks are likely to be blocked by the iron dome, resulting in no Israeli casualties. But if Israel retaliates, Palestine will have casualties.
  
  I think the thought process is to defend Israel by implying all the deaths they’ve caused is as a counterattack?
  
  Again, not defending it, just interpreting what I think was being implied. Even if my interpretation is correct, so much is still missing from the thought process.
  
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A little more nuanced than that.

Where did Israel come from? Who lived there first? Why was Israel set there and who deemed it all legal?

Imperialism.

People native to the area are shoved aside, money is sent to force those people being shoved aside and nobody is supposed to care they are shoved aside.

I agree chart pushes a narrative but the narrative is not "Palestinians are crybabies about missile strikes"

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- Jews are natives to that area as well. It wasn't just the people who today call themselves Palestines.
  
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Yes, cause pre-iron dome, which is on this chart 2008-2011, the death toll was much completely even.

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On this chart, where is the line showing babies and children beheading?

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Before we just dig in and point fingers, maybe we can get on the same page? Nobody is saying murdering babies is ok, as others pointed out, that has not been substantiated. Assuming we're all against murdering innocent people, the point of the chart/linked article, is to understand the circumstances that make a powder keg for violence.

Think of it this way: pointing out that having a table full of wood shavings and gasoline out in the sun is likely to cause a fire is NOT pro-fire or justifying fire; it's pointing out the conditions that foster the growth of fire because you want less fire to exist in the world.

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Considering that I haven't seen any substantiation for those claims, it's properly charted already at 0.

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I always think to myself "No one could possibly believe such blatant propaganda" and then i read comments like these. Why behead them? Why don't you behead the adults? Do you carry a dedicated baby knife for that?

It's not like they'd be innocent without beheading babies... But i guess dehumanizing them like this makes it easier to justify the atrocities that are sure to be commited as a reaction to this.

It kinda makes me wonder how much of the things i assume to be true are the product of propaganda aswell.

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- They intentionally slaughtered a massive amount of civilians in a blatant act of terrorism. The people that did this don't believe Jews to be worthy of living. True or not anyone who can believe and do these things isn't too far off from being capable of beheading babies.
  
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You mean the made up babies that everyone who claimed they existed are now backpedaling on?

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It's not on the chart. Not only did it not happen prior to the current October 2023 war (as it clearly states in the title of the graph and the post), it didn't happen at all.

What did happen is the overwhelming murder and maiming of innocent civilians who have no way to defend themselves, against one of the most powerful nations on the planet.

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https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/there-is-no-proof-palestinian-fighters-beheaded-babies-the-only-source-is-a-radical-settler/

https://theintercept.com/2023/10/11/israel-hamas-disinformation/

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It's not that hard to read fam.

The title of the chart clearly states prior to the Oct 2022 war. So ..

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- *2023
  
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And here we see one of the rights favorite tactics. Focus on the most lurid horrifying story, usually involving a white woman or child, to demonize and marginalize a group of people while completely ignoring the statistics of whose actually being victimized. You saw it in the Jim crow south with stories of negros raping white women, you saw it in nazi Germany with stories of Jews sacrificing German babies, and now you see it in the defense of Israel.

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- The battle for hearts and minds.
  
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