3d ago

Plant Slurs

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Another fun fact about plant naming conventions: all lettuces* are the same species
*except wild lettuce but nobody really considers that a lettuce. Still, I guess it would be more correct to say all of the food lettuces are the same species.
Irrelevant side quest that I went on while double checking this: DuckDuckGo now forwards some search queries to their chatGPT wrapper, which prompted (pun intended) the following interaction:
- More powerful AI says:
  No, not all lettuces are the same species, although many commonly consumed lettuces (e.g., iceberg, romaine, butterhead, oakleaf, and leaf lettuce) belong to the same species, Lactuca sativa.
  However, some plants commonly called "lettuce" belong to different species or even genera. Examples include:
  Lactuca sativa: The typical garden lettuce varieties (iceberg, romaine, butterhead, oakleaf, loose-leaf lettuces).
  Lactuca serriola: Wild lettuce, an ancestor to cultivated lettuce.
  Valerianella locusta: Corn salad or lamb's lettuce, commonly consumed as lettuce but from a different genus.
  Cichorium endivia: Endive, sometimes called lettuce but technically not in the lettuce genus (Lactuca).
  Eruca vesicaria (Arugula or rocket): Often mixed with lettuces but belongs to an entirely different genus and family.
  In summary, while most common lettuces belong to a single species (Lactuca sativa), not everything commonly called lettuce or used similarly in salads is botanically the same species or even genus.
  
  Are those actually considered lettuces, though? It's most likely a cultural thing but none of those are lettuces over here. As in, calling them lettuce would be as far fetched as calling spinach lettuce.

It's a bit clearer in french; "weed" is "mauvaise herbe" which literally translates to "bad herb/grass".

My co-workers call me weed I think it's because I'm tenacious. So much in fact I have a meeting with HR on Monday probably a pay rise

Fun fact: the name for a weed in my native language is literally "angry grass" :3
- Unkraut in German. Doesn't deserve to be called a Kraut.
  
  Similar in Norwegian: Ugress. Un-grass.
  I've heard one definition of it that I like: The grass that your (grazing) animals won't eat.
  
  Ogräs in swedish, gräs is herb and the O is like making it not-grass.
  Röka gräs is smoking weed though so suddenly it's getting the good treatment.
  
  So technically all non-Germans are Unkrauts! I‘m incorporating this word.
- I love it, what language is that?
  
  Lithuanian :3
- In Swedish the prefix for bad stuff is the same as the prefix for not or un-. So a monster is a not-animal and a weed is ungrass. Which is especially interesting to me because that same prefix (o) is for better versions of things in Japanese.
  e: This got me thinking about "plant," and I realized it's literally the verb to plant. In Swedish it's a growth, or thing that grew. Japanese and Chinese: planted thing. Spanish is also the same as the verb. I feel kinda bad we mostly talk about them in terms of farming them rather than giving them a proper name. Like if they get sentient someday, plant will probably be considered a slur.
  
  that same prefix (o) is for better versions of things in Japanese.
  Puts on nerd glasses well ackshually it's used to elevate the status of something, such as with people, objects or other entities of social or religious significance (for example other people's family members in a polite situation). It's more honored than better.
- The French name for weed could be translated to "bad/wrong grass"
  
  Erbaccia in Italian, bad/ugly grass
  
  I think this is something I might be too French-Canadian to understand, here we'd call it "pot" or perhaps "herbe", both of which don't translate to "bad grass".
  Unless overseas "herbe" translates to weed. We use it pretty interchangeably with "gazon" (which just means grass)
- Mine translates to "bad grass" in both my mother languages.
  
  Seems to be a pattern :3

How about honeysuckle vs trumpet vine? Both grow like hell, invasively, where I live. One is a tasty and pleasant treat when flowering. The other is just.. there, growing. A lot.
- Same rules apply. If you don't want it there, it's a weed. If you don't mind it being there, it isn't.

i call this the weed paradox.
even though weeds grow unassisted. it is impossible for everyone to grow weeds in their garden. for is they try, they are no longer weeds

Weeds are just highly successful flowers that have earned resentment from others.

The general definition of a weed is "any plant growing where you don't want it to be". A corn plant in a bean field is a terrible weed.
- what the hell is a bean field? also beans are great with corn they climb the stalks, also have squash, then boom you have the so called three sisters.
  
  Bush beans are a thing? Soybeans don't climb either, and it's the most common bean grown in the US.
  
  I am aware of, and deeply intrigued by, the three sisters method. It's just not a commercially viable method of growing those crops; I don't know what the harvest would look like.
  We need to grow a lot more industrial hemp, but I'm afraid that's a bit of a pipe dream unless we change...literally everything.
  
  Never heard of the battle of the beanfield?

A weed is whatever your HOA says it is.
- A HOA is a weed.

My definition: aggressive spread and resilience to removal.
Plants that are pretty might get more of a 'pass' than ones which are ugly, poisonous or thorny, but ultimately, even the most beautiful flower becomes a weed when it's suddenly everywhere and you are fighting constantly to get rid of it.
- aggressive spread and resilience to remove
  Many would argue that mint is an herb. But if you ever had your garden invaded by mint, you'll definitely classify them under weed.
  Always plant mint in a pot. And if your neighbour has mint in their garden, you better have a 2m trench filled with concrete between their garden and yours.
  
  60 cm is the actual number, which makes it much too real for me...
- aggressive spread and resilience to removal
  Humans are a weed.
  becomes a weed when it's suddenly everywhere and you are fighting constantly to get rid of it
  (Humans! :))
  \ But you are fighting constantly to get rid of it bcs of some arbitrary goals. And the fact it's spreading means that it's perfectly adapted for survival in that environment you created, so it's perfect for that pace.
  
  the fact it's spreading means that it's perfectly adapted for survival in that environment you created, so it's perfect for that pace.
  There is such a thing as exotic invasive species that destabilize the local ecosystem, though.
  
  No weed is for plant. Fir animals its pest/vermin.
- My definition: aggressive spread and resilience to removal.
  That fits to a lot of useful plants too. Strawberries, Brambles, Mint, just to name a few.
  
  Yes. If you don't have adequate containment then strawberries can absolutely be a weed.
  A delicious weed, but still a weed.

Just wait until he finds out about "tree"
- Any kind of twig that's not a shrub?
  
  A nice one, and not too expensive.
- Or "fish"
  
  Or "fruit"

am i not supposed to want weed around?

OOP is the author of something like seven published novels, one of which has been adapted into a movie and another of which may soon be made into a streaming series. Never feel embarrassed to say what you learned today.
- It’s easy when you didn’t know something that is completely reasonable not to know, like in this example, but it’s always good to admit your ignorance.

Weeds is just the gardening term for "their kind".
- "you people"

In Spanish we call them "malas hierbas"
- In German it's "Unkraut" which could either be interpreted as "not herb", "abnormal herb" or "evil herb". Is the range similar in Spanish?
  
  Other than the “not” part, yeah. “Mala” is bad, wrong, evil, wicked, ill, naughty, etc.
  (Checked this to confirm before I posted, since it’s been several years since I’ve known Spanish well enough to speak it.)
  
  Estonian is umbrohi which is kind of like "not grass" so pretty similar to Deutsch here
- Isn’t hierba buena mint? Everything else must be hierba neutra then
- In french, it's similar: "mauvaises herbes"
  
  And I think that's beautiful.
- I learnt from Animal Crossing that it was "Malezas"
  https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maleza
  La maleza, mala hierba, hierba mala, yuyo, planta arvense, adventicia o planta adventicia, planta espontánea o planta indeseable
  "Mala hierba nunca muere" is also a fun saying
  
  Maleza is more like a thicket or lots of malas hierbas.
  https://dle.rae.es/maleza?m=form
  But now I see that in some countries is synonymous with mala hierba, I didn't know that.
  
  Some countries in Latin America call it maleza and others do not

My garden is all weeds. Tons of different plants, but some dominate in certain seasons, growing like 5 feet high. Seems to have avoided anything nasty though, no thistles, nettles or brambles.
My neighbour's garden is a thin layer of plastic astroturf. And they let a dog run about on it. Good luck getting dog diarrhoea out of that.
I know which I prefer.
- If you are happy with the plants being where they are then they aren't weeds. The main problem is companies that sell plant killing chemicals and services treat the word 'weed' as if it had a universal meaning.
- I wish someone had warned me before No Mow May about brambles.
  1 shoulder injury and a year later I need chainmail gloves and a fucking flamethrower. I fill my green bin with brambles, by the time it's picked up they've grown back.
  The main root is under a shed. I don't know how to eliminate it.
  
  I don’t know if this will work on brambles, but for pesky root systems I’ve had luck with Bonide’s Stump and Vine killer. You cut near the base of one of them, then paint the exposed stem with this stuff. It absorbs into the root system and kills all of it. Works great on pokeweed.
  Edit: Turns out this is just a specific brand of triclopyr herbicide like MoonMelon mentioned. So here’s another recommendation for triclopyr!
  
  The worst I had to deal with was pampas grass, which appears to be a plant made of actual swords.
  I spent three days hacking at it in a coat so I wouldn't get shredded. When I finally cut the root bulb out it was a cube of wood a foot across. I could barely lift it out, I had to roll it to the bin.
  At least pampas grass doesn't spread.
  
  Brambles can be valuable plants, providing shelter and food for many small animals and tasty blackberries for people. But, if they become noxious, they can spread quickly and choke out all other plants. They spread by rooting from the plant tips and even if you dig up the root system, any little piece of root can and will re-root and grow a new plant.
  Either move the shed to get at it - all of it - or you honestly may need to resort to herbicide to kill it. It sounds like you have fought them mechanically and are losing the war. I would recommend consulting your local garden center for the best herbicide to apply to kill them.
  
  I don't know if you're opposed to herbicide, but triclopyr will kill it. You can get triclopyr salt (water based) and apply it to the freshly cut stump surface (within moments of cutting), or triclopyr ester (oil based) and apply it to the outside of the plant close to the base, no cutting required. Both of these will kill the root. Otherwise just keep cutting and eventually you will exhaust the root.
  Not sure about elsewhere, but in the USA you can typically buy the water-based triclopyr salt in a small bottle with a brush attached to the cap. This is in pretty much any garden store. Even though you have to cut the plant first I think this is the best form for just a few plants.
- brambles
  Don't know what plant it is, but what a great word.
  
  Nature's barbed wire. They often have things like blackberries on them.
  
  This is a screenshot from a stage in Donkey Kong Country 2 called Bramble Blast. It's those plants.
- I have brambles sprouting up all over the place from where they were left to spread by the previous occupant. And that sodding bindweed stuff.
  If it wasn’t for my wife it’d be full of veg.
- I also prefer your dumb neighbor having diarrhea stained astroturf.

The idea of “weeds” is a colonialist construct.

Yes, this was a real educational technicality fuckup, it seemed sus but everyone was like "don't you know it's a weed"? - "No, no I do not. And you don't even have a field to worry abut crop yields, it's just a lawn & now there is a flower in it, wtf."
I know it's economy (or even sociology), but it's too close to biology not to directly explain it properly.
- I'll have you know my lawn is a crop and it yields social status.
  
  I prefer the bees in my clover over conforming to some neighborhood standards.
  
  Social status with the local HOA,
  \ not the social status with the local coven.

Is this fish but with plants?
- fish but with plants is trees
  
  get out... are you saying barks have no meaning

Well, "weed" can be a legal definition. A lot of governments have a noxious weed list that either provides for consequences if you suffer that plant on your property, or just an excuse for the government to come on to your property to kill the weeds for you. For instance, Russian Olive is legally a "kill on sight" invasive plant in my area.
- noxious and invasive weeds.

There’s a perfectly good definition of the difference between flowers and weeds.
- weeds are plants with the capacity for spite

[with visibly bloodshot eyes] "Nah, man, I disagree with your definition there."
like I know it's a science meme but both the stoner and the linguistics guy inside me go "but wait, there's more..."
- Don't smoke dandelions.
  
  But do make wine from them........

Nobody's said it so I will.
A weed is any plant that grows on disturbed or compacted soil without cultivation. Their growth conditions are created by humans and their spread is caused by humans.
Our opinions mean nothing to plants

Ironically, weed isn't a weed for many people.

He's a bit slow on the uptake

In Thailand, if you can eat it, it's not a weed.

What about invasive vs naturalized?

Then we go and define things as "invasive" as if the world hasn't been ever-changing for billions of years. As if we know better and need an environment to remain exactly as we found it, forever. As if nature won't just fucking figure it out.
- As if nature won't just fucking figure it out.
  Nature will figure it out, but it won't necessarily figure it out in a way that's good for us (or whatever we want to prevent from going extinct).
- Invasive species are something else. They can cause active harm to an ecosystem and are crucial to look out for, especially in sensitive areas. Just because "life finds a way" doesn't mean destroying a niche habitat is okay.
- It definitely counts as invasive if we put it there though. I don't see rabbits swimming to Australia.
- Lots of know-it-alls proving your point

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