cooperation rule

The other thing to consider, and maybe this is already addressed, is that there's a stunningly large proportion of the population that is not only okay with this, they want it. And it's not a situation where those people who approve or simply don't care are segregated out by regions, they're literally living next doors and up stairs. They're cousins and sisters and fathers and bosses and coworkers and so on. This is not some super easy "why doesn't the larger of the two simply eat the other?" kind of situation, and no matter how hard anybody wants to try and reduce it down to that, sorry, that's just now how things work.

So more in line with Nazi Germany than confederate 1860s USA

A general strike for 2 weeks. Will bring the economy to near destruction and force change

Tell everyone to stock up on two weeks worth of supplies and look for a new job hoping everything works out? The hardest part is getting enough people to actually commit to it

If the US collapses before I die. I can die happy.

This is an evil country. It makes war on the world. It threatens the world via control of the reserve currency. To say nothing of the abuses it visits on its own citizens.

Total collapse. Balkanization. Don't care how. No expectation of surviving the fall. But as long as it falls I can die happy knowing that life on this planet has a brighter future than it did with the US at the till.

They should just disunite and become 51 independent states. Then they don't have to project their internal differences onto other countries any more.
- I agree, Balkanization would be for the best at this point; there's no longer any legal solution
  Every state has its own government and the feds have become more trouble than they are worth.

without a rallying force, its just sparkling crazed gunman

This is kind of it. I know there are protests and movements and all that, but folks on here say it's not enough, and that may be true, but as you jest, one guy isn't getting anywhere by himself. And to take it a step further, putting together some kind of group will draw the attention of Alphabet Agencies faster than anyone can do anything.
We've got 20-plus years of spying on American citizens, and that's on the books, excluding what they did before they legalized it.
- and just to be clear, i am not advocating capitulation to tyranny. i am saying to get armed, and to start resistance groups especially when the alphabet agencies start tracking. armed protests are more effective then ‘non violent’ ones. the no kings protest was the largest protest in america and was used to frame trumps parade, it was used to generate drama for the clicks and did nothing else. it was so toothless that the police didn’t even feel the need to intervene.

I'm rapidly approaching the point where I don't care if anyone has a plan or not.

To get that kind of momentum going against a literal police state would be difficult to say the least. Such a movement would also likely be smothered in it's crib by the surveillance state we built ostensibly to keep us safe from the terrorist boogeyman that America created.

Even if the revolutionaries win, there's no guarantee that the government that comes as a result would be better in any way. Great warriors rarely make great rulers.

This is it. Anyone who might be interested in "fighting back" who has half a braincell knows it's just not possible. It needs to come from a state, or even a city. It needs to have some political figurehead, some borders, some organization. Taking on the government is not a DIY operation, and said government is not going to let some organization pop up when that organization's goal is to fight back.
We've been "legally" spied on here for my entire adult life, and then some. Brainwashing red hats was the last step.

Americans don't know how to cooperate, they're raised with a "me first" mentality. They can't fathom the thought of laying down their lives for their countrymen, so unless you propose to them a revolution where every one of them gets treated as the main character and everybody else as the supporting cast, they won't lift a finger.

Also "the fellow countryman" being racist and fully supporting of the whole process doesn't exactly help with motivation.
- Also there are those of us who don't see other Americans as countrymen, I am a Californian first American by technicality. I hope to drop shells on Utah one day. Nevada, Arizona, Washington, and Oregon are cool though, Idaho has the potential to be cool if the politicians and zealots were purged Idaho Falls has a great MilSurp store.

Americans were bred not to fight for anyone except the master. There is no real God(s) here.

Violent revolutions almost always result in bad governments for exactly this reason, i.e. it's only fringe idealists that get it together enough to lead one, and such people are usually terrible at doing actual grown-up governing.

It's why it's so infuriating to see right-wingers claim that basic social safety nets and tackling inequality are Communism, because it's like, if you want Communism then pushing half the population towards that level of desperation is exactly how you end up with it.

We are in the middle of a revolution, just not one of, for, or by the people.

Now that corporations are people, they are "fighting for their rights" to make obscene profits; it's a "Cash is King" plutocratic revolution.

"Professionals are predictable but there are a lot more amateurs to account for."

Listen, at least tear it down for the rest of the world, what you do after that is up to you, but for the love of god just stop the existence of the usa

That would hit the whole world very hard and millions maybe a billion would die. Without the US there would be war.
- Lmao sure buddy,the force of peace, the USA. Do you live under a rock? Or do you don't consider Iraqis, Iranians, Palestinians, Kosovans, etc... not human?

Most of the people here live paycheck to paycheck and can't afford a $500 emergency.

So the risk of even just getting arrested, and held in custody for a week, would be enough to ruin one's life.

That puts a damper on protesting, until you or your family are directly impacted. It also inhibits willingness to strike.

And it also explains why so many protesters are of retirement age -- they don't have a job to lose if they miss work unexpectedly for a few days.

In a lot of ways, we were already conquered.

Ultimately the same for all other authoritarian states with a "docile" population. Fragile living conditions threaten their livelyhoods, preventing many from joining the fight.
- Until those fragile living conditions are threatened. Then people will think "I'm fucked if I do nothing and might not be fucked if I do something. So I will do something."
We were conquered by comfort. We had enough money to throw at those willing to produce things for vast sums of wealth, that we threw vast sums of wealth at them to make us comfortable.
Not secure. Not safe. Not healthy.
Just comfortable. Nice, predictable, reliable routines that give just enough satisfaction to make you feel like you're not in immediate danger, and for our survivalist brains, that's enough.
Even our discomfort is comfort. Working 13 hours a day moving other people's furniture sucks, but you can still scroll your phone, you can still get sugary snacks and a bottle of alcohol at the end of the day. You will still undoubtedly read some story that will make you feel special for working hard, a message that you're a "real" person and a "true citizen" and that makes you comfortable with your hard days and self-medication to get through the week.
To say nothing of the vast, vast number of people who are completely tuned out from conscious thought and just shuffle from one easy reward to another. Scroll your forums, check your likes, eat your burger and soda, yell at someone on a forum because they don't like a thing you like. Watch the advertisement for the new thing that successful people own... you can afford one of those things, right? Maybe save up a little longer, and you can get one!
We live in margins of debt and safety, we let culture shape us, we have long since given up shaping it. There's an app to do that for you.
- I disagree that 'comfort' was a cause. That line of thinking comes from the same puritanical austerity narrative that has been used to tell the working class that our circumstances are due to poor character rather than because we were talked out of demanding more.
  It's victim-blamey, but like all victim-blaming narratives it has the virtue of restoring a sense of control, a sense of "this is the thing that I can decide to do that would have prevented this."
  ...which isn't to say that I don't think we can't identify things that could have stopped this. But I don't think a vague assertion that people here are more distracted or 'comfortable' than elsewhere helps. Also - a lot of people are not comfortable. But they may deal with that by at least enjoying the distractions or not staring into the sun of things they don't think they can change.
  Ultimately, we ended up here through corrupt systems. The Trumpers were right to want to 'drain the swamp', they are just so blinded by antimosity that they fell for a grifter because he promised to hurt people.
  All the pillars of democracy have been under attack since Reagan - high quality journalism and education to maintain an informed voter base, a voter base with enough time to research issues, and political campaign laws to keep government working in the public's interest.
  Occupy Wall Street tried to sound the alarm, but journalism was already too corrupt and the movement was successfully sold to the public as 'annoying college kids demanding free things'.
  So now we have a significant chunk of the voter base that doesn't know what habeas corpus is, or anything about how our checks and balances are supposed to look, and thinks what makes this country "a free country" is that we blow shit up with fireworks on July 4th - and doesn't see why authoritarianism would be so bad.
  And the rest of us who are looking on aghast are honestly afraid of our police, of Trumpers openly talking about lynching us (and yes - they have more guns than us. Most liberals still refuse to consider becoming armed), and of losing everything and dying in a prison cell run by a for-profit corp.
  This is a stage-4 cancer diagnosis on a social scale, and people are still figuring out if we want chemo or to try to ride this out as long as we can.
  On top of that, while conservative social media spaces are full of people threatening violence, all of the platforms are coming down hard on any space that discusses anything more provocative than holding a sign in a nonn-threatening manner in a way that abides any police order given.
  There is no place to organize, and no one is proposing or organizing any serious strategy. Seriously -- I've gone to local meetings, and all any activist org or politician will say is "organize with your neighbors (organize what?) and try to do mutual aid".
  That is not a meaningful response to an organization like the Heritage Foundation.

If I managed to rally my fellow men with out being ~~assasinated by the CIA/FBI~~ commingling suicide, then we would just be ~~bombed out of existence like the the black panthers~~ terrorist combantants.

Not sure what the point is here exactly. Every single country that has ever had a revolution had to deal with these things.

The point is that if you convince yourself there's no chance of succeeding, then maybe you won't feel so guilty about not even trying.
ill add that some of their methods are pretty well documented too. and worked multiple times.
Yes let's downplay the US military like it's just any other. No biggie
- the military is what the ghandi trap is for. one doesn't defeat them in combat, we be brutalized by them publicly in a way that radicalizes enough of the remaining population that they have to kill everyone in order to prevent the revolution.
  so in order for it to work you have to lay the groundwork beforehand teaching people how to have empathy for the victims of systematic violence. in which your enemy isn't the military but propogandists.
yes, that's why most revolutions result in dictators.
Yes and they had cooperation and a plan and the US population does not have either.
- Given how messy many revolutions were, i don't think that to have been the case most of the time.

Not to mention, "how is someone supposed to organize any of this without getting disappeared by the FBI or CIA."

Easy. Get disappeared by ICE instead.

I'm just gonna leave this here:

"Nonviolent protests are twice as likely to succeed as armed conflicts – and those engaging a threshold of 3.5% of the population have never failed to bring about change."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/future/article/20190513-it-only-takes-35-of-people-to-change-the-world

Everyone I know involved in nonviolent protests is also currently fighting legal battles for people who got hospitalized unprovoked by police at said legally organized nonviolent protests.
From your lips to whoever's listening out there. I fear that the sheer number of weapons out there will make any nonviolence quite tenuous

Kurzeghast(sp) has a great little video that ends with essentially "there is literally nothing stopping us from having a better healthy post scarcity society but ourselves. There is no reason for it except for the mindset that perpetuates that we can't"

There are also lots and lots of guns wielded by lots of misguided poor people being paid by very rich people who have nearly infinite resources at their disposal.
I'm not saying the conclusion is wrong - but it's not easy either.
- Strap up
There is no reason for it except for the mindset that perpetuates that we can't
Theoretically every human could just cooperate too, but that's not how humans work. Humans are animals and a lot of society exists to suppress and channel animal behaviours.
We should try, bit by bit, to get to a post-scarcity society, but we should also acknowledge it's going to be hard and take a long time.
"Kurzgesagt" is German for "briefly put."
- I think the English channel used to be called "in a nutshell"
- Yeah I knew I would butcher it
- How about “curtly said”?
I fail to see what that has to do with a violent uprising.

And before all, who is willing to intentionally miss (perhaps forever) the remaining episodes of their favorite show to make that all happen?

I don't think they're making any more episodes of Firefly
- Turns out they could take the sky from us. 😞
- Must you upset me so?
Yeah. We can't even get people to agree to stop using social media networks that spread misinformation and fund the worst elements in society. You can't even SUGGEST it to them without being met with angry, ignorant, defensive nonsense. If we can't even manage that, how are we going to convince them to risk everything on revolution? I think we've Brave New World'd too hard - the old rules do not apply.
I don't know what the answer is. But the problem is clear.
- i'm kinda hoping that social media gets less interesting over time to many people. the reason why everybody spent 15 hours a day in front of their smartphone for the last 2 decades was mostly because of the novelty of it all. once we've seen it all, it's less interesting and people will stop using it so much.
I'm not currently on any shows or series, so...

My biggest fear is what emerges after.

No, no, don't you know, this time it'll be different. Every time a government was violently overthrown by the local population what came after was either dictatorship or warlordism. But this time it'll be different! Trust me, bro!
- I'd be willing to accept help from France again
- That's why it tends to happen only when the "right now" is terrible for enough people. If the options are either living in a dictatorship, and fighting against and possibly not living in a dictatorship, a lot of people might favor trying the latter

They always talk how they need guns to prevent tyranny and they are in a tyranny for over 6 months now and nothing...

That was never the reason.
Like anything else, conservatives only want things because smarter people suggest to them that they don't need them.
Guns, unhealthy food, horse paste, religion, fossil fuel power, gendered bathrooms...
Everything is pigheaded contradiction like a 2 year old.
- I'm very ready to defend myself against the Nazis. And I'm regularly on the outside of protests in my area just waiting for one of these fuckers to hurt anyone. And there are plenty of us there.
  You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
- Horse paste
  https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3043740/
  Discovered in the late-1970s, the pioneering drug ivermectin, a dihydro derivative of avermectin—originating solely from a single microorganism isolated at the Kitasato Intitute, Tokyo, Japan from Japanese soil—has had an immeasurably beneficial impact in improving the lives and welfare of billions of people throughout the world. Originally introduced as a veterinary drug, it kills a wide range of internal and external parasites in commercial livestock and companion animals. It was quickly discovered to be ideal in combating two of the world’s most devastating and disfiguring diseases which have plagued the world’s poor throughout the tropics for centuries. It is now being used free-of-charge as the sole tool in campaigns to eliminate both diseases globally. It has also been used to successfully overcome several other human diseases and new uses for it are continually being found.
  Research takes like, no effort. Still perpetuating this "it only for horses" bullshit does nobody any good. "Viruses aren't parasites," is better.
  It still doesn't do shit for covid, but it is widely used to great effect in humans for, y'know, what it actually does do. Hell maybe RFK needs a dose lol.
Be thankful that enough of us are armed that the fascists aren't yet kicking down doors. Can you imagine where we would be if they could enter any home without fear?

People revolt when they can't take any more. They don't need a plan for what comes next, they just need a critical mass of desperation and anger. Too many people still feel that they have more left to lose.

I don't think we're close to that uncomfortable as a nation and I will be surprised if the world's wealthiest forces let this cash-cow get that far. It's going to be long, slow, painful bleed-out until our children's children hold up pictures of families who own homes and cars and have three meals a day and wonder what happened to those days.
That's assuming history won't have been re-written and our descendants won't be taught that their world of ruin and disease and starvation isn't actually much better than "the old days" because they will also have AI that makes music for them and medicine that some people can afford sometimes.
- I'm not so sure. Those "forces" aren't as rational as I used to think. Things seem to be speeding up in our collective race to the bottom.

In many successful revolutions, an army was a part of uprising. Serving in the army does not make you any less of a voter.

I'm not sure the answer to this question but I'll be ready with my de-ICE-ing agent.

Before you can throw a revolution you have to build a revolutionary society. Without that it's nothing but a coup.

And the majority of people are libs and conservatives that think ”capitalism isn’t perfect, but it’s the best we got.”

Forget blackjack, we're just gonna let the Hookers run this one. They will always do a better job than those fascists.

Every single hooker I've ever met had more of a moral compass than the US far right, so I'm with you there.

"How would they deal with the army?" Probaby even better then other folks in shitty technicals like Afghanistan and Vietnam did to be honest. They aren't going to nuke American rebels because then they'd win a big radioactive pile of shit. Think they'd shoot missiles in NYC? Fat fucking chance. Even tanks rolling down Main street is gonna set off alarms.

The soldiers, firing into the crowds, brought death to tiananmen square. Survivors were simply run down. The tanks never fired a shell, because they didn't need to. In the decades since then, nothing has emerged to shift that power dynamic in the favor of the people.
We're not worried about missiles, stealth aircraft, armor penetrating rounds, their stupid microwave cannons, drone strikes or whatever other sci-fi bullshit looks good on television. We're worried about armored vehicles rolling down mainstreet while there are thousands of people there, and the crowd crush that results. We're worried about one zealous national guardsman with an M2 firing blindly into a march as it crosses a bridge. We're worried about any leaders that emerge being quietly disappeared overnight, about our families being singled out by a teen at a fusion center that's watching Joe Rogan on their phone, or about the simple fact that the military could just turn off critical infrastructure and our cities would grind to a halt. We have no way to stop that.
- The Oligarchy can only roll over one protest. After that it is guerilla time.
  The US is prime real estate for that. Large thinly populated areas, large remote mountain areas, densely populated urban areas. Population with access to guns at large, access to chemicals for explosives...
  Tiananmen worked, because it crushed the resistance. Once the resistance decides not to be crushed, it is usually game over for the Oligarchy. It won't be pretty though and it can take a while.
  The key is that in asymmetric warfare, the regular army needs to defeat every single resistance fighter. The resistance just needs to survive as it pecks away at the regular army.

Blackjack & Hookers?

Shouldn't be too hard to build a society around blackjack and hookers. Blackjack is how the government is run and the government is run by hookers.

To be fair it's not a "somehow". Nearly every democracy on Earth is more functional than the USA.

The simple fact that we can't form coalitions like in a parliamentary system has the liberal left deadlocked. Democratic leadership feel like they don't have to compromise with their left flank to win, while chastising them if they lose. Actually having a system where two parties have to hammer out an agreement to share power would at least turn the fuckin' page already.
Of course, to get a system like that in the States just puts us right back at the image heading this post.

I'm sure there were people in Rome that saw the fire, looked around and realized they were surrounded by self destructive fools.

30 years ago when I learned about the fall of Rome, I thought "how cool would it have been to be there in person and see what happened live?" Fuck me if I'm not finding out

And further, while voting is made difficult by those in power to protect their power base, it is far easier to convince people to vote than to fight a war.

Also, voting doesn't mean you can't still protest or do other forms of organization.

Maybe rephrase the question, given the American Revolution?

Those guys weren't Americans, they were brits. In the end it was a war of brits fighting brits.

they LIKE racism
very few, mostly funding issues
toy helicopters, vapors + soapification effected solids
lone wolf. huey P. Newton's autobiography title, all threads lead to doomed wolf
revolution with heavily splintered factions that all kill each other for power at the end of toppling the old guard is a tale as old as time.
no. consider that political theories the average person is aware of are old, out dated, and largely meaningless concepts that many people have idolized. Marx has been dead so long, I doubt he would have any clue how to deal with geopolitical machinations. if he could grasp them. there's really no point in theory. analysis isn't a creative process. it's only ordering chaos into a digestible framework, it's not how anything comes to be. creative acts are based on needs. what would happen? who can say. but I can say nothing will make sense in 4 years. it stopped making sense before then as well, but, again. it will stop making sense. that's all.

But but but, I thought the guns... I was promised it solved things.

it would if the people who wanted tyrants dead were also the people who bothered to own guns and attempt insurrections.
- The right is regularly claiming there are tyrants and they love their guns.

I dunno. I think blackjack and hookers would go a long way actually.

Yet? It's in the history books!

Uhm, but Russians and Koreans have all this figured out, but they are so evil they just don't do anything. That or me having seen zero of this kind of post about these countries is a pure fucking mystery

they are so evil they just don't do anything.
What does this even mean? What revolution are you talking about? Between the two ethnicities and three nations.....your claim is kinda vague.
- Let me guess... so, are Russians bad because of all the horror the state is doing or should there be no revolution because everything is ok?
IDK about Koreans, but the basis for the Russian (both) revolutions the basis was the soldiers who returned from the war
- Which does not sound good at all