1y ago

Can America Survive a Party of Saboteurs?

www.nytimes.com Opinion | Can America Survive a Party of Saboteurs?

Republican cynicism seems to have no bottom.

72 comments

The answer is no, the American political system cannot survive a high percentage of willful contrarianism. This is true because the mechanisms to change the system require support from those bad actors as well, and the popular vote can do very little to fix if.
- I’m tired of this nihilist capitulation
  Those bullies live in communities, and those communities have to tolerate it for it to wipe out America
  We stood up to these assholes in the 30s we can do it now
  
  We stood up to these assholes in the 30s
  But did we really? I read my history, and if not for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, the US would have either not joined WW2, or would have joined on the side of Germany.
  The first CIA director (Before the CIA was formed) was doing spy shit in Europe before the US joined the war, and was very friendly with Hitler's government. He reportedly cried actual tears when the US joined the was against Germany.
  There were Nazi marches in the US in the 30s, but they weren't popular for one reason only. The US population didn't like that the Nazi ideology was German. The Homegrown Fascists were more popular. Especially the America First movement.
  
  It's not capitulation, it's an acknowledgment that this is cancer, not a virus.
  America is not under attack, it's suffering from actions of its own people. We can't keep pretending like Trump or his supporters are an aberration, they are a significant portion of this country, and if we cannot change them, or change how the system works without their agreement, then we're stuck like this for quite some time until some sort of generational or cultural shift happens.
  It's not nihilism, it's seeing the state of the field and acknowledging what the actual problem is. The question then is what we do about it, and chiefly, how much time we have left to do something about it before the damage becomes irreparable.
  
  Mitch McConnell won his seat with the help of the negative ads saying thr Incumbent wasn't doing his job and was absent from voting way too many times. Kentucky was solidly Democratic at that point.
  Maybe some of these superpacs need to hammer that point home.
  
  Give it 6 years and it'll be the 30s again. The wheel weaves as the wheel wills.
  
  Kind of a definitional issue, isn't it? We have to tolerate it under our political system, because that's how our political system works. Deciding not to tolerate it requires discarding or ignoring the rules of our political system. So whether it's them or us knifing it, the answer to the question is no, our political system won't survive, by definition.
  (There's nothing particularly sacrosanct about it, so the important question is whether we can fundamentally change our political system without too much violence.)
  
  Both of you seem to be correct, but dystopian.
  
  We were unified in the 30’s and these assholes weren’t homegrown.
  It’s a different climate now. We’re not prepared for it.
  
  That is the part I really do not understand. History has shown time and time again that the people always win.
  
  If you don't see an American and eventually global reset as a good thing, you're part of the problem.

The real question is will the American Populous accept a dictator? Or will we tear this country apart from the inside if he wins?
- A depressing portion seem to want it. The left will protest I am sure but I don't know if it will be enough.
  
  The left in the U.S. is made up of dilettantes and academics unwilling to put in the work required for real change. They only know handwringing and criticism.
  There'll be protests that are swiftly crushed and the vast majority of Americans will tune out and go back to voting for The Next Top Whatever and waiting for the next big movie.
  
  I'm French enough to protest but everyone around me seems to not understand how the French protest. Buncha cowards.
- I vote for tearing it apart.
- https://socialistra.org/resources/
  For anyone interested

If we decided to stop giving them the benefit of the doubt and start reacting appropriately probably. If we continue to try and argue in good faith and search for diplomatic solutions to things like states deploying troops in opposition to the federal government, then probably not.

Headline is a question. The answer is no

Conservatives are convinced their policies can't fail, only be failed. They think God himself has ordained them as higher beings, entitled to shepherd the rest of the world towards prosperity that looks an awful lot like techno feudalism. Every now and then a catastrophe of their own doing will pop this bubble, but their goldfish memory quickly reverts back to the original setting of racial and religious exceptionalism

"We're going to do everything we can to normalize them so we can find out!"
NYT
- "US democracy ends!" I bet that headline'd sell! What can we do?
  FOX

Define “survive”?
- In true American fashion we will start to do something once it's too late

Cruelty is the point…
Does it hurt me less than it will hurt those that I don’t like? Great. Now, how can we hurt them more….
It is a crazy philosophy to live by. I don’t effing get it

We can survive a few saboteurs but when they take control of government, the end is near.

Nope. And it’s dumb to even ask.

This is the best summary I could come up with:
Almost four years have passed since Congress approved and Donald Trump signed a huge relief bill designed to limit the financial hardship created by the Covid-19 pandemic.
In fact, according to a Federal Reserve survey, the percentage of Americans “doing at least OK financially” was actually higher in July 2020 than it had been before the pandemic, presumably because for many people, government aid, including one-time checks and greatly enhanced unemployment benefits, more than made up for lost jobs and business.
Furthermore, fears that generous aid during the pandemic would undermine America’s work ethic — that adults would leave the labor force and never come back — proved totally wrong.
The trick here is that they pretend 2020 never happened — a sleight of hand that only works because federal aid allowed so many Americans to emerge from the pandemic slump in good financial shape.
For example, in 2019, she shepherded a bipartisan agreement to suspend the debt ceiling, averting a potential financial crisis, with a deal that Trump himself conceded contained “no poison pills.”
Oh, and a significant fraction of Republicans, Trump included, would prefer to block aid to Ukraine because, by all appearances, Vladimir Putin is their kind of guy, and they’re content to see him steamroll his democratic neighbor.
The original article contains 892 words, the summary contains 212 words. Saved 76%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

It depends on how seriously the other party opposes the party of saboteurs.

We have done so for the last 20 some odd years at least…

I'm bummed that this is just op-ed.

The answer is a YES with a standing ovation. There is no alternative to democracy. Even if the country breaks, America will survive.
- I like your optimism, but Authoritarianism is, unfortunately, an alternative that can "work" for decades. It sucks for basically everyone who doesn't have power, but it is nonetheless viable and a path we are one election away from going down.

72 comments