the war on computation

They authorized the update when they bought the phone from the carrier.

The worst thing is the past few years android updates brought fuckall exciting new stuff and just more spyware and worse performance .

Thank God for the Bixby button though.
- I returned my Samsung phone over that button. Haven't touched their shit since.
My recent (unwanted) update changed the lock screen to this weird format where the two-digit hour is above the two-digit minute instead of next to it separated by a colon like normal people use. I keep setting it back to what I want but this weird over/under format keeps coming back. Some fucking douchebag of a UX/UI designer thought this was a genius new way of showing the time and now it's being jammed down my throat.
- I always keep at least one notification so I don't have to see that stupid format on my lock screen.
Yeah, I was using stock pixel launcher forever until the most recent "update" that added yet another button to the search bar that you can't remove, that I used daily, and the button went conveniently right where my right thumb tapped. Switched to Lawnchair, and it's not without issue. Why can't shit that has worked just continue to work the same way?
- Why can’t shit that has worked just continue to work the same way?
  Line must go up.
- I also swapped to Lawnchair not that long ago. The only thing I miss so far is the ability to use app shortcuts on the home screen. Like opening YouTube directly to my subscriptions, etc. It also uses black text for the status bar on the home screen making it invisible but that might be user error.
  Edit: There's a setting for "Dark Status Bar." I don't know if it was on by default or if I switched it. But now I can see it again.
Hey now that's not fair, they also made the ui huge so it looks like a fisher price toy! No you can't turn it off why would you want that??
- Of course they did, the average American struggles to tie their shoes.
The recent OneUI update on my Galaxy is shit. Performance and functionality overall are worse than before. Smdh

I routinely get a Samsung notification telling me to agree to some new agreement thing. I swipe it away. It just reappears in 48 hours or so. I swipe it away. We've danced this dance for years.

I don't know what it's for, I don't care, and things are just fine as is. There's nothing it it for me so, no.

Please click here to agree to our new Samsung privacy policy.
- I'm sure that they would choose to interpret the swipe to clear it as a click
  but yeah my last phone I did that for several years. nope, no thank you.
  every time I start my TV I have to say I don't want the new firmware because it comes with a new privacy policy / user agreement
Same with WhatsApp for me, there are new terms and conditions that allow engagement with businesses and sharing some personal data with them, I've been rejecting that shit for four years now, they still keep asking.
- And the app still works? Mine told me it was compulsory and would stop working if I didn't agree
My Samsung forced update and installed bloatware. I'm looking forward to going back and getting a clamshell phone from to the 2000's
I do the same. I'm close to just delete my samsung account because I don't really need and/or use it.
- True. I genuinely don't use i either.
  Then again, I'm rolling an S20 Ultra+ that just does everything excellently still. If I want to extend its life as long as possible, I should just load on another OS and solve the Samsung issue that way.
- I stopped using a Samsung account a long time ago. Never used it with my current phone. It doesn't seem to make a difference.
I use an app specifically designed to automatically dismiss notifications and I use it to dismiss this Samsung one you mentioned and the voice mail notification, which for some ridiculous reason can't be disabled.
- Which one
btw you might be able to block notifications from that app with long clicking
- No, it doesn't let you disable this notification unfortunately.
At some point it annoys me so much I just hit accept. It's probably nothing anyway.
- That's what they want, so spite fuels my resolve to reject it repeatedly
I legit got this notification on my phone while reading this comment. I do the same and will continue to do the same.

I have a desktop I built in 2019 with no TPM running. Windows 10.

Starting a couple of months ago, occasionally when it boots it will automatically open a full-screen ad for Windows 11.

It's extremely disruptive because of my setup. I use my monitors and keyboard for my work laptop and have a KVM to switch between the two, and since I use that space for work I don't like to spend much time there for recreation. So I often turn my desktop on and run it headless whenever I'm done with work, and don't see the ad, which then messes up my attempts at streaming. So I need to walk back upstairs to switch the KVM and close out of it manually.

No matter how many different "permanent" solutions I can find on the internet it keeps finding a way to do it again every couple of weeks. I've moved to Linux on most of the rest of my personal machines, but this desktop has all my old music production software that needs Windows. I'm getting pretty close to just investing in a different music production platform that works with Mint though.

Or that "Let's finish setting up your PC" box as if I haven't been fucking using it for ten years.
- Which is just fucking using Onedrive to save your personal files on Microsoft's servers.
  Fuck you, Microsoft! I don't want to login with your fucking servers.
No matter how many different “permanent” solutions I can find on the internet it keeps finding a way to do it again every couple of weeks.
Can I ask which version of Win 10 are you running? I have never run into this with Windows 10 Enterprise (or Education) versions.
- Alas, I am running the Home version. I did find in my research posts from sysadmins running the Enterprise version who seemed to have more luck permanently disabling it than I did.
I know it's been rough for a buddy in a similar situation, but if you're an ableton user, he's found bitwig to be the closest thing to come to what he needs. But I believe he's still had some driver trouble in places. I don't do much myself as a full-time linux user, but what I ave done of late I've used in-the-box deals like an MPC Live for the heavy lifting, then recorded into ~~Microsoft Paint for Audio~~ Audacity on my actual machine from the box.
- I can't remember the drama with audacity, the usual over reaching and collection of data type shit I think but you should check out Tenacity instead which is a fork of Audacity.
- I actually use Cakewalk Sonar X2 mostly. Cakewalk went out of business and has been bought-and-sold and resurrected multiple times since I bought it back around 2014-ish. Whenever I built my desktop in 2019 it was kind of a miracle I was able to get the license activated- I forget what ended up working but I remember having to do a bunch of online searching through forum discussions to get it done.
  I downloaded the trial version of Reaper on my Linux Mint machine and it's... Okay. And to be fair at $60 it's a lot cheaper than the $150 or so that I paid for Cakewalk. Considering I'm not doing anything professional that's probably what I will go to eventually.
  Sometimes I look at the pace of technological progress and think that humanity is moving too fast for its own good. There's constantly new companies and new products starting up and then going bankrupt and obsolete in a couple of years. The Cakewall software I have is perfectly fine- it could run just fine on far weaker hardware, there aren't any features in other modern software that I feel like I'm missing. It just feels so wasteful to have to spend time, energy, and money to switch to a new platform because capitalism dictates I must.
Have you tried GRC’s InControl? Supposedly helps prevent the win11 update attempts.
https://www.grc.com/incontrol.htm
- Oh thanks I'll have to give that a shot later!
Have you heard about out lord and saviour the Linux kernel?
Hail to the minty freshness
https://linuxmint.com/
If it's supported by your hardware and software you're still using, I'd be tempted to blow away Windows 10 and put Windows 7 on there. I ran Windows 7 for several years after support ended - best Windows experience ever. Rock solid stable and no hassles of having to deal with updates. I eventually moved onto Linux after continuing to run Windows 7 for general desktop usage started to become unfeasible, but for something that just needs to run Windows to do some specific things, I'd definitely consider it.
idk what you are using but bitwig runs well on linux and is pretty modern and good, reaper is a little uncomfortable to use but extremly powerful
Yea, that's a Windows Home thing.
Upgrade to pro, where that stuff doesn't exist.
Not to justify it, but the thinking by MS is "this OS is free, so you get ads", like commercial TV or the rest of the nonsense on the internet.
Also, I've run Windows with updates disabled since Windows XP, and have rarely run into problems. I say this as someone who's been in IT since the early 90's. I've seen 10x more problems caused by updates at work than anything else.
At home I enable updates every 6 months, then go manually grab the updates I need, or else it'll update things that will break my system.
- Windows Home isn't free, though.
- Is Windows Home free? I’ve certainly never seen it be free. I’m ok with free stuff needing to make money somehow, within reason, but the second they start asking for creditcard information that shit better be clean as a fucking whistle.
- I paid for my Windows license already, I think it was like $110. I'm not really interested in giving Microsoft any more money to continuing to use a product which is worse than the one I already paid for.
- Windows Home is free?
- I don’t use my Windows 10 desktop a ton, but I’ve definitely gotten the full page “Update to Windows 11” screen a few times, and it has Windows 10 Pro installed.
- Even better if you can get your hands on an Enterprise key. Even more configurable and is doesn’t have some of the annoying items.

We're getting close to the point where "running a stock ROM" is on the same level of inadvisable as "using a web browser without ad blocking". The latter of which was, btw, also not that big if a deal like ten or fifteen years ago.

It was sort of a big deal. The forbes malware injection attack by ads was ten years ago. It still ranks as one of the most hilarious 'poetic irony' bits in computer security. I'm sure ads were doing other insidious shit in 2010 that just went unnoticed because it didn't hit security researchers.
Praying for some stronger ROM support for foldables. As soon as ATT lets my phone go free (2 year contract) installing one would be the first thing I do, except my phone is a Razr Ultra 2025 and I can't even find much for the Z flip let alone the razrs.
For now though mullvad stays on with dns blocking and I just keep to Fdroid and Aurora store if needed, not sure what else I can do
- Same. I've never seen any alternatives available for my Z Flip. I'm thinking I'll go with a Linux phone next time I need a new one. I don't care anymore if they're "ready" or not.

I hate that my phone is held hostage. My computer is free thanks to linux, it just sucks theres few linux phones that work in the US.

GrapheneOS is at least better than Google android.
- GOS by all its strenghts, is following the paths treat by Google and Apple on defining what a smartphone has to be and how its security model has to look like, where only the OS distributor has full privileges, and you are just allowed to use it.
  If you have the same requirements for your system as the people who designed these phones assumes you have, then GOS is great for you.
  But if you want to tinker and customize, like we can with Linux systems, then Android and especially locked down systems like GOS aren't for you.
  I am using GOS myself, because it is good, but I also have a separate device of tinkering.
- I have a Samsung sadly
- Graphene isn’t entirely better. It makes trades. Some of those trades get you things you might like but they also cost others things they may want to keep.
  For example, I want a folding phone without fucking Gemini. I cannot have this without graphene os, but that also disables other things I still wants, like tap to pay or the ability to use certain banking apps.

As a security and privacy minded person im glad i CAN keep automatic updates enabled on GrapheneOS without having to worry about some crappy forced features being added.

I see windows users have to disable them too, its so crazy to me that people tollerate this stuff instead of just switching... Like yeah automatic updates that break things are annoying but "linux is too complicated", so instead of learning to adapt to a new system, you adapt to just accepting that you dont fully get to control your devices a they will get progressively worse until eventually you have to get a whole new device. SMH

“linux is too complicated”
The worst part of this is that it's no longer true. Windows is WAY more complicated than Linux (can be) at this point.
- I switched to Linux and it is "too complicated." Imo. There are a lot of compromises you have to make when you switch. I couldn't even get my first couple distros to work because they don't play nice with Nvidia.
  I switched to bazzite because it would actually work graphically and I mostly only use steam anyway, but it isn't all rainbows. I feel like I'm always switching Proton versions to get a game to load. I use Proton db, but idk I still have issues. GoG I use heroic and have the same problems. Also, installing software is a pain. It's not that hard to use CLI but I get sick of it when I just want my shit to work with 2 clicks. Ive tried to run windows apps wlbut just gave that up. Also getting used to the folder structure and placements take time.
  Plus, I can't seem to Google (or whatever) my problems. The help you get in Linux forums is usually " just switch to insert distro".
  I've worked IT jobs for about 10 years so I feel like I have some knowledge, but Linux has stumped me a couple times already. How is an non-tech person supposed to just switch?
  I'll never go back to Windows but you can't expect people to leave something that works for something that they have to fumble with to get working.
- I feel Windows 10 and 11, which I am forced to use on various work computers, represent a new era of impossible to predict UI behavior. Like, hats off if that was intended, they succeeded. I can't make heads or tails of anything anymore, and the things I want are several options deep now.
Good luck keeping root access with your GrapheneOS auto-update.
- Your comment doesnt make any sense, i wouldnt want root access from GrapheneOS, that would break pretty much all of the security benefits.
  The point is to not need to use expliots and break security just to configure your device how you want in the first place.

"If we let you control your phones you'll just mess them up!"

Which is our right. I paid for the phone. Google, Samsung, and Apple aren’t fucking paying me.
- Which is our right. I paid for the phone. Google, Samsung, and Apple are~~n’t~~ fucking ~~paying~~ me.
  There, I fixed it. It's time for a new FOSS phone OS to take over. GrapheneOS looks nice, but it only runs on select Google pixel devices. Maybe if phone manufacturers were forced to let the user chose their OS?
I am reading this with a rooted LineageOS phone with MicroG installed.
wasn't there also some concern about messing up the radio communication for a lot of users?
the idea was that you actually can't mess with radio communications. if you send too much data, it kinda clogs the airspace of radio frequencies and that' actually illegal to do in many countries. rooting the android phone lets you access the radio antenna directly, and you can't let playful nerds mess up the city's mobile internet for a million inhabitants every other day. especially since the source of interference would be hard to track down.
Now i wonder what that would mean for mobile internet usb peripherals that you can plug into linux laptop and desktop machines. how do they solve this issue?
- Rooting the phone means playful nerds could potentially mess up radio frequencies, but they can already do that because they can build radios using readily available electronic components. We already have all kinds of regulations about radio use, and we go after people who actually cause problems.

Here is my list of what any device really should have:

Make me able to use my device as I want to.

If the Operating System don't agree - there MUST be a way to install alternative OS with a SINGLE BUTTON CLICK.

Oh, god. Think of what kind of world that would open up with this simple rule. The device could be a smartphone, Windows machine, termostat, or a dishwasher. Anything would never be obsolete anymore and all users can be happy - a machine obeying the user. Wonderful. Please EU fix this!

What kinda magic fantasyland one button click smartphone dishwasher...
- Finally my dishwasher and thermostat can all run templeOS

We really do need more viable open phone options. We are well past the point in hardware capability that we could have a linux phone that turns into a desktop when you plug it into a docking station. USB-c connections handle everything for my work laptop.

I have reverted back to using my Linux PC for most screwing around online. My phone, for the technological wonder that it is, is for communicating with family, listening to music, GPSing, and then occasionally computer stuff, looking things up, etc.

Canonical tried years ago and just didn’t get the funding they needed to release an Ubuntu phone. It would have been a dreamy device, especially in today’s tech market.
Graphene OS is a privacy focused OS that runs on Pixel phones.
Its not as seamless as native Google Android but it's still production worthy and works well enough for me
- I’m definitely glad it and others like it exist. But for phones isn’t the issue more with low-level hardware and firmware? I bet we really need Google to make “Pixel” an open platform and not just a device, so that we can have the “IBM compatible” of phones. But I trust the Google of today to do the opposite.
  Maybe RISC-V is what I’m waiting for? An open phone is going to need to run the same software as Linux PCs to have all that good FOSS support, and I don’t think I’ve rad any rumors about x86 phones, lol.
I can't wait until a PinePhone comes out that I actually want.
- I'm impressed it's only $200
Sailfish OS existst, but it is far from beeing nice. Look out for Jolla OS too

funny how a(n implicitly) rooted linux computer is fine, but a rooted handheld linux computer is the devil and insecure.

If PCs came out today there is no way you would just be allowed to install Linux on it.
- New ARM laptops coming out right now have their bootloaders locked. So yeah...
- I am afraid you are right
- don't give them ideas

Still running good with LineageOS.

Seriously this. I don't understand why suffering through manufacturers, customized skins and os's makes any sense when lineage is such a solid option.
Lineage on my phone Linux on my computers degoogling services running on a micro cluster. It's never been easier to get away from big tech.
- Because the majority of people (I realise that won't be the majority of people on Lemmy due to the general user base) aren't technologically literate enough to flash custom ROMs and the like on phones even if they want to get away from the bullshit you mention.
  Graphene is the easiest for sure and when more phones are supported with that kind of easy install I believe it will embolden more people to make the switch away from crap they don't like.
- My previous phone wasn't compatible with lineage nor any of the other popular android derivatives.
- Did magisk become a lot better at hiding from banking apps? Because people have been saying "it's fine, just install magisk and use the option to hide it" but my experience is "it only works sometimes for some apps, otherwise you're fucked or you will be fucked next time the app updates its countermeasures". But that was a few years ago.
  It's an absolute dealbreaker though. Without reliable mobile banking and eID it's very painful to do any kind of online payment or admin work.
Same on GrapheneOS.

Mine also updated recently and now my phone is performing considerably worse

oneUI or whatever really made it worse
I went from an s9+ to an s23. it felt great
then I got a forced OS update and it feels like I went halfway back to the beat to shit s9 again
- The "time to buy a new phone" update, happened to my zenphone 9 too, made the battery life much worse
- Gods above, I wish I could go back to before this stupid update. I was denying the update for months and then it went ahead and still updated in my sleep. I hate this update. Such a downgrade in so many ways.
  If I understood it better, I'd change my OS at this point.
yeah mine's been sucking down battery noticably more since
- Is it a pixel 6a? There's something wrong with their batteries so they updated them so they don't get set on fire. They're giving a free battery replacement, and I heard you might also be able to get cash out of it. https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/16340779

Hmm... The tech industry looking a little rape-y...

I guess it would be good to have consumer petitions demand phones with unlocked bootloaders.
Edit: this inspired me to write this post.

I ignored a recent update that would give me some AI bullshit. After a few weeks, they just pushed the download to me and gave me a notification of a scheduled reboot to finish the install. Frustrating to say the least...

Yep, updated Sunday night after I pushed off the notifications for months. I feel like they punish you for making them do it too, because it turned my alarm off and I was late to work because of it. Funny how my last phone, an S8 never had the issue of me having to unlock my phone to initialize start up after restart.

Did you have encryption enabled? I just upgraded from my s8 3 months ago, if you have the encryption turned on then you need to put in the password after every reboot for it to decrypt the phone. I he that its not 'initializing' and the device encryption is optional and you might not have had it on
- Not the guy you're asking but I don't think it's related to encryption. I've had the same thing happen on my S24 with nothing encrypted
  Edit: I am wrong, see below

Stories like this is very much why I severely limit the amount of time I spend on Windows. Having been with Windows nearly since the beginning of its history, it's insane to see the amount of reduction of user control that's gone into it.

One of the most egregious things is the lack of control around updates. Often I'll finish a session with my laptop and go to store it in the bag. Windows will cheerfully inform me that there is a forced update and then I end up having to wait for my machine to finish its shit while I sit around tapping my toes.

Meanwhile, in Linux-land, I have as much control over updates as I wish. I almost breathe a sigh of relief when I reach my Linux desktop, because it's still a place that feels like MINE. I feel like I'm some kind of sharecropper or temporary house guest when on Windows 11. It doesn't feel like "my" environment. It feels like it's Microsoft's computer and they just let me use it occasionally.

For myself, I was lucky(?) enough to have wasted my best years playing with Linux and running Linux boxes is no problem now. For the average Joe that needs to mess with computers, I feel bad for them. Windows 11 feels like shit, MacOS sure isn't great either, and that's pretty much the only choice.

No wonder I'm seeing less and less households with PCs and laptops. I think the average person in 2025 has just given up on computers and makes do with their phone or tablet.

Thank fucking god for Linux, because if I was forced to use Windows 11 full time, I think I'd snap and go live in the middle of the forest or something. It's actively annoying to even look at at this point, and I only see things getting worse. For example, the troubles with Windows "Recall" have barely even started.

I loathe to see what Microsoft has in store for us next, and I would guarantee it's not user friendly.

I use my laptop for data processing, but most of my tasks can be adequately handled from my phone. There are days when I don't open my computer when I get home from work.
- I don't know how you do it. My phone is mostly used for reading the news. I hate using it for anything more complex, cause all of that is just so much more convenient to do on my linux PC instead with a proper mouse and keyboard.

"Yes"
"No, but thank you soooo much for asking anyway! You'd be welcome to ask again and I am soooo thankful. It's a great thing that you filled the screen with this pop up for a thing I do not want. No, but thank you."

Corporate machines stole my voice that's MY VOICE give it back I have THOUGHTS to say with MY VOICE give me my voice back you ass give it back let me say what I want I need to tell them to fuck off

Where's my Linux phone at?!

I am an it at a company. Forcing updates is a necessity for some of our users. We have 5 year old phones which have never been updated, and needs to be for their software to work right.

That said what works in consumer space and what works in corporate is two different things. As a consumer I’d hate this and have moved away from preinstalled android years ago. But as IT, this needs to be here.

Ultimately I just think its laziness of the company to either not have a toggle for it. Or have a corporate build for corporate customers

You’re an information technology?

You dont own something unless you install linux on it

this can be easily remedied by killing all of humanity except yourself
Are you telling me Linux doesn't have automatic updates?
- It does not. No normal Linux distro installs updates without user consent. You can turn that feature on though if you like.
- Sure it does, if you turn them on. Here's the relevant screen in Linux Mint Cinnamon.
- I'm using linux mint, which is beginner friendly. It doesn't have automatic updates as default.

Am I the only here that smells bullshit/ragebait? When your phone has the bootloader unlocked and you're rooted, you simply cannot receive official software updates. That only works in custom roms.

EDIT: It seems that for several people this is not the case. Guess I'm wrong then, but personally I've never received software update requests after rooting. Right now in my xperia 5v I literally can't even check to see if there is one. The only way to know is to look up my model in xperifirm.

I have a pixel 4a (yes, ik its eol, i use it more as a backup) that used to be rooted, until i got that shitty battery update, immediately switched to graphene. So yes you do still get updates on rooted
- Weird. Also a Pixel4a user (condolences to both of us), but I had LineageOS on mine and was rooted, but I've had no software updates. I get reminders from LineageOS that a new build is available, but I just swipe right because if it ain't broke don't fix
- I think it depends on the device. I remember rooting my s7, or maybe it was the grand prime? I cant remember the exact model, but it was samsung and around that time period for those two models, and any software update i wanted to apply, including security updates, had to be manually installed/side loaded.
Why not? I remember buying phones that could be unlocked and had no issues with them updating after doing so.
- Same. Why should bootloader unlock stop OTAs? Sure, i dont doubt that some manufacturer somewhere does this, but I would not expect it to be the norm.
Normally that is true but they just forced one on Pixel 6a. I had the same thing happen to me and had to reroot my phone at like 6am before work.
It seems they are being significantly more aggressive about it with their battery failure updates.
sometimes it tries to automatically update, fail and mess up the OS (happened to me with earlier versions of Moto G)

I want the same control over my phone that I have over my desktop computer. Why is it so hard? Sure, there are several people not capable of doing that, but they aren't on their desktop as well, and it still works out. Not everyone needs to run Linux, and that's fine. But I want to.

As Louis Rossman puts it: rape mentality

Every major Android update takes up more memory. When my phone is about a year old I have to just stop updating it, because I tend to keep it close to full, and I can't have them stealing more memory from me.

These criminals know that the updates will negatively impact functionality thus forcing you to upgrade. It's theft.

So what’s the non-corpo option for phone OSes?

Grapphene, Lineage, and MicroOS are the ones I know.
- CalyxOS I discovered the other day

Owning the devices you purchase™

Win11 When i hit "restart" after work to boot into Linux: "You mean log off ... You wanted the log in screen right?"

What version of windows 11? I've been using Win 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC and haven't had too many issues.
- Pro. But i also use an offline account so half of everything else is broken. Whatever. Get a new job and I'll scrub the OS from my PC. then the new employer can give me their hardware and account and IT garbage or whatever.

But it’s cold outside.

I'm still rooted but I'm on android 7 and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one with access. Lol If only I had more money that access would probably be worth more than just amusement.

yeah, i bet you can ask women who work in the tech industry about their understanding of consent and get some colorful responses.

They want us straight into shackles. One could say that their behavior is downright rapey, and they will probably do that as well.

The solutions to such lawlessness is obvious.

I just bought this expensive ass phone too so I'm kinda stuck with this shit I can't afford to replace it so soon. But yeah, my next phone is probably going to be as privacy oriented as is feasible.

How long ago was this post? I also received OS update on my android just yesterday.

3h ago
/s

How can an "infosec" run stock Android?

does this also affect OP12R? i have battery saver on, so its preventing the updating from constantly bugging me.

It's really a more general problem with Western culture around engineering. Restriction maximizing engineering makes the world shitty. Engineers think they have an obligation to make any product do the absolute minimum that stat still meet spec. That is not to reduce cost or design difficulty by coming in just at spec, but to actively try to make things as shitty as possible using significant effort to do so just so the thing can do only the minimum thing that can be said to do the thing at all. It actually takes effort to make this happen.

The end result really sucks. Because this is so costly and everything is layered maximal minimalism this means that if you want to scale anything up at all the cost to do so is insane if western engineers are involved. This is a significant reason why China gets the manufacturing work and western engineers don't. They are yes men. Yes we can build that. And they have a network of yes men behind them that can help them execute on anything. And because they don't waste time engineering restriction every product and sub-product is adaptable.

But the western engineer only knows one mode of thinking. "We need to isolate the regimes that this product may operate in." Sometimes that's true but it shouldn't be everything we think about.

As a Western engineer, it's not engineering, it's management culture you have a problem with. Most engineers I meet want to make their product the best they can, but management actively cracks down on and sabotages these efforts for various reasons, none of them having to do with engineers.
They think that making something worse always takes less time and effort, so if you made something that is more than the bare minimum, they think you've wasted their budget.
Also, they don't care about making a good product, they care about their careers, so if someone else had a good idea, they are incentivised to sabotage it because it either draws time and attention away from the things that would get them promoted. If you think that your new thing could make their work easier as well, and your interests are aligned, see my previous point.
Finally, with customer-facing products, there is also the fact that your better solution might make some bullshit monetisation strategy obsolete.
We're alienated as fuck from our work, don't point at us mate.
- i think people are accountable for the systems they participate in, as involved or not as you actually feel.
  people are valid in being upset with doctors, engineers, etc. for systemic things. i certainly know i get pissed with the doctor here in the US sometimes. if the whole system you work in is rotten people are gonna get mad about your hand in it, as rational or not as it is, and i don’t think there’s anything wrong or unreasonable about that tbh.
  i don’t feel the need to abscond my responsibility in my work by pointing to others that may be involved… it’s how we end up here and now where no one can ever be held accountable for anything.
  don’t get me wrong, you’re right that it’s probably more a managerial problem than not. management is just, like it or not, at least in the West; an intrinsic part of our engineering and design process, and thus we are accountable for the effects it has on our product.