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John Fetterman says he'll 'never understand' progressives who refuse to support Joe Biden

The Pennsylvania Democrat recalled his time serving as a Hillary Clinton surrogate in 2016, even after he supported Bernie Sanders in the primary.

390 comments
  • In the primaries, I supported progressive candidates like Sanders and Warren because I think their policy prescriptions would make for a better America. In the general, I voted for Biden. That was a harm-reduction vote.

    What I don't like to hear, in the primary, is the 'you have to vote for the candidate who can win' line of argument, which begs the question it pretends to answer- if everyone who says "I'd vote for x but x can't possibly win" just voted for x, x would actually win. This gives whoever tells you that "x can't possibly win" the power to get you to give up on voting for what you want, which seems to wag the dog.

    In the general, between dem and gop control, it's not a close contest for me; it's between a party afraid to do progressive things the voters want and a party that will do whatever the fuck it wants no matter that nobody wants that.

    Yes, our electoral system of first-past-the-post demands that we hedge our bets and compromise in order to avoid the calamity of electing a fascist in this election cycle, but it's hard to support with evidence the idea that what makes a progressive candidate "risky" isn't just a self-fulfilling misperception that causes the party to spend (or not-spend) money to prevent progressives from becoming party nominees. After all, research consistently shows that politicians of both parties routinely overestimate the conservatism of the voters.

    I'm glad to see the Biden admin embracing the progressive changes it has been able to get to, but I'm also sooo tired of being told 'we can't nominate a progressive, they'll be called a communist' when no matter who we nominate they'll be called a communist and decades of voting a harm-reduction ticket has rolled back much of the New Deal

    • if everyone who says “I’d vote for x but x can’t possibly win” just voted for x, x would actually win.

      Not really. It means that person does not have the votes to win. Even if every supporter of X exclusively voted for X, plus a few supporters of Y, X would not win against Z. However, if every supporter of Y voted for Y, plus a few supporter of X, he would win against Z. So we should shift our support to Y because he has more supporters and is more likely to win against Z.

      I think what you're trying to say is that if every Biden voter just voted for Bernie, Bernie would have won. Which...sure, but you could say that about anyone.

      It's a difference between core voters ("I'm only excited about X") vs swayable voters ("I like X but I think Y has a better chance of winning against Z").

      The point is that Biden has more core supporters than Bernie. Biden has a bigger, more reliable group of people who want to vote for him and only him.

      • It means that person does not have the votes to win.

        It means that people who want to vote a certain way are being pressured to vote a different way.

        This in turn means the way the votes went is not a measure of what people want, but rather of what they can be pressured into doing. These are different things, even if it's convenient to dismiss it as a distinction without a difference.

  • They are prioritizing principles over practicality. Which is a great way to hand power to the greater evil.

  • Because the Democrstic Party did just about everything it could to try and have it be Senator Conor Lamb. Or by effect, a Senator Oz.

    For me Biden represents much of that faction of the Democratic Party. Hence I have trouble assuring Biden my vote even before the primary.

    • It's about getting 50%+1 in a democracy, right (or at least it should be)? So at some point the choices should come down to a binary to guarantee a 50%+1 outcome. However, the right candidate in a representative democracy and building of that 50%+1 should be done either with rank choiced voting or 2 round elections (either with a primary as we do it now or with multiple parties in the first round, that winnows everything down to 2 candidates). And an important role of the primaries is to get the resulting candidate to negotiate and build a coalition unifying the the 50%+1 coalition. So that deal that Biden and Sanders struck after Biden won the primary was huge. In the case of the left, the primary helps move the winning candidate left of where they might otherwise be. It's why I was ecstatic to have Bernie run in 2016 and 2020 (It puled Hilary Clinton and Joe Biden to the left). And I think it's bullshit that the Democratic party puts its thumb on the scale.

      So if you have a left-right linear spectrum constituting 100% of the electorate, there are obviously different 50%+1 coalitions that can be made. Joe Manchin or Conor Lamb wants to be at the center of that 50%+1 coalition. Progressives obviously have an anathema to that and want that 50%+1 coalition to include everyone from the left end of the spectrum to the right of that up to 50%+1. Unfortunately, with institutions like the Senate and electoral college and whatnot, getting that 50%+1 coalition requires building it with Joe Manchin or Conor Lamb. Otherwise, there is no majority.

      So while we fixate on Biden and whatnot, Biden and us need to focus on local elections, local referendums, and creating a Manchin-Sinema-Conor Lamb (or his equivalent) proof majority in the House and Senate. It's obvious to me with several of Biden's moves, he's highly responsive to popular will and the votes available, regardless of what his own or his donors' proclivities are. So if we want paid family leave and assistance with early child care and a pathway to medicare for all and expanded child tax credit, we need to be focused on winning all of these more local elections. Yes, having a popular candidate at the top of the ballot would help, but if you look at Biden's polling, it's the left end of the spectrum that's keeping him from being closer to 50% popularity. Instead of getting angry that we didn't get all this stuff when Manchin scuttled everything, we should be focused on building majorities that don't need him.

      If John Fetterman hadn't had the stroke and the resulting depression, I'd be ecstatic about having him run for the presidency. Hopefully, he'll recover by and be in good shape by 2028. We need a blue collar - union friendly presidential candidate to unify and build that 50%+1 coalition. I was hoping it was Sherrod Brown in Ohio in 2016 and 2020, but he voted against the Rail Worker strike and I think it's taking its toll on his Senate election chances in Ohio.

390 comments