Conservatives go to red states and liberals go to blue as the country grows more polarized
Conservatives go to red states and liberals go to blue as the country grows more polarized
This is part of the GOP strategy.
Senator Josh Hawley from Missouri has openly acknowledged that the GOP strategy is to make it so miserable for Democrats in red and purple states that they will move to blue states. That would, in turn, cement Republican power in the White House, Senate and thereby the Supreme Court.
This is only a viable strategy as long as the electoral college exists.
It's not going away.
This argument needs to die. The EC is never going away, so stop pinning various strategies and hopes on it somehow magically disappearing. If people spent 1/2 as much time on actually voting and campaigning for center and left candidates as they do complaining about the EC, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today.
Ok. I think people’s actual lives are more important than a 250-year-old document that can’t differentiate between a flint-lock pistol and a machine gun. Don’t you?
redacted
I love living in L.A. because while we do have our right-wingers, seeing a Trump flag even in my semi-conservative pocket of the city is rare.
I'd say it's a valid strategy, abhorrent though. Because of the rural bias in GOP there will naturally be more counties, states etc that run gop if Dems move to denser blue areas.
Yeah, but the strategy’s multi-pronged, so even if you stay and suffer for your suffrage, they can find new reasons to prevent you from voting/discount your ballot. And then you’ve put your life and happiness in jeopardy for nothing. Not a great recruitment pitch for the Stay Put Brigade.
Had to scroll too far to find this! I also read that it was totally about strategy in those purple or starting to lean purple states as more young people lean liberal, and the older, evangelical crowd is not being replaced enough with young people to keep a good footing for the Republicans. If the liberal people leave, the states turn solid red, and then they don't need new people so much to keep power.
Of course no one wants to live in a place that is contrary to their beliefs so you can't blame anyone for moving somewhere else... but the implications of that are scary for the country as a whole.
When one group became openly hostile to multiple populations of people based on things like race and sexuality, it's no longer 'voting with your feet', it becomes 'go somewhere they're not gonna shoot my son'
Yeah this article was interesting, but absolutely drenched in both-sides-ism. "I wanna be able to fly a thin blue line flag" doesn't compare with "I'm LGBTQ and fleeing for my life."
Thin blue line flags and safe places for trans people can not coexist.
“People want to live where they know their neighbors don’t want to wipe them from the face of the earth. More at 11.”
Exemplified by the fact that we have started having free states again like during the civil war. The Maryland governor has been very clear and direct that the state of Maryland will take in political and social refugees from Florida and Texas. Where transpeople are being forced to die or pretend not to exist in Florida, Maryland is codifying their right to be and live as who they are.
You can't blame lefties and progressives for wanting to escape to freedom when their other option is death or hiding.
There is a real threat of harm to various minority groups living in red states. Hell, there’s a real threat of harm to women who can fall pregnant living in red states. I’d certainly not want to live there if my accidentally falling pregnant (which would likely be ectopic in my case) would result in a very high chance of my death.
Both sides?
My generally open minded historically liberal friend called me the other day.
He moved to a very conservative area a few years ago, and the other night in a phone call he was saying "I'd feel far safer being a liberal at a Trump rally than wearing a Trump hat at a BLM antifa rally".
It is very much perceived on the right that the left is a violent mob waiting to burn down your neighborhood at the smallest slight. While the right is a bunch of friendly Sunday school help thy neighbor types.
I tend to lean towards this is all bot farm propaganda trolling, and that only a very small percentage of either side are actually bad people I would want to avoid.
The problem is, this is how people are getting their information now days, and the idea that "Oh that's just people on the internet" is no longer valid. Social media and algorithmic rage bait driven content are having a very real impact on the "real" world.
Since he is an old friend, I was able to get him to pause for a breath in this talking point fueled screed he was on, and point out "Dude, I just want the same simple things you do, abortion access, religion out of schools and politics, reasonable gun ownership, healthy air/food/water, a strong national defense, etc".
When one of the first arguments you bring up is the "violance" of drag people reading books to kids, well shit, I just don't think we're having the same conversation.
I’m sure both sides are actually doing this. It’s just that only one side is actually being persecuted and forced to leave their homes.
The problem comes when conservatives see the rainbow flag (or any of the other numerous pride flags) as a direct attack on their religion. I grew up in a very conservative area of a very red state, and I can tell you from personal experience that an attack on their religion will feel like a personal attack against them. They might be flying the thin blue line flag as a "fuck your feelings" flag, but it's likely because they see any pride flag as a "fuck your religion" flag.
This really stems from the larger issue of tying religion and politics together; now they can view any challenges to their political views as a challenge to their religious views. One thing Christianity is very good at is building a victim complex and that Jesus/ the church is the most important thing in this life or the next, and that preconditions their followers to believe that they will have to dig in harder in the face of adversity.
I think the real key is to make everyone realize that freedom of religious is the same as freedom from religion as well. Once we can all get on the same page that making something legal and available (like women's healthcare) is not the same as a government endorsement and still allows people to not use the service. Getting over that hurdle might take away a huge arm of the right-wing propaganda machine (allowing priests and ministers to give political messages from the pulpit) and might help the wheels of government to turn a little smoother.
I just wish the “blue states” could stop funding the “red states” utter stupidity. It’s just more privatize gains and socialize losses for the rich.
Edit: fixed an autocorrect word to clarify what I was saying
What does this mean exactly?
Red states are, across the board, severely lacking in the education department
Conservative terrorism is out control. It breaks out specifically across racial and socioeconomic lines.
Moderates and liberals are trying to protect themselves, while conservatives are hell-bent on tearing everyone down.
My hope is that these are the death throes of the Republican party. A loud gasp for air before the party croaks and shatters.
Correct, they do in fact do those things. What were you trying to say?
How is it projection when that is exactly what they are doing?
How many more dead kids do you need to see before taking action on conservative terrorism and white terrorism?
How many liberals were taking pop shots at power transfer stations?
January 6 happened but okay.
These people are crazy. This community, I thought would be a real political community …. But it’s just full of r/politics refugees
Same idiocy going on here that was going on at reddit
This is a good thing. The only way the red states will change is by getting worse and worse. They will have no doctors, teachers, nurses, lawyers, or corporations that will purposefully live or do their work there if they can help it. If you are a woman, a person of color, a migrant, an LGBTQ person, a child, or anything other than an old white man, the red states are no longer safe for you.
I basically refuse to go to most of those states if I can help it. Florida? You couldn't pay me to set foot in that state. I feel they same about Texas and many others.
I want conservatism to thrive. It does have a place in a healthy political system. But, my friends, the conservatives are the moderate Dems now. I don't know what else to call the Republicans, other than fascists or cult members. It is a sickness that any person in their right mind should run as fast as they can from.
The truly upsetting part about this is that there are people that are desperate to leave those fascist states, that can't for a variety of reasons outside their control. I wish things were different. This is just insanity.
I want conservatism to thrive. It does have a place in a healthy political system.
What place is that? Conservatism at it's core is about maintaining the aristocracy/hierarchy. That's what it started as, and it's never wavered from that mission. All of the claims towards 'conserving what is good' or 'fiscal responsibility' or 'protecting individual rights' are just that: claims. They have never acted in ways that would back those claims up unless their actions also helped maintain/promote the aristocracy. The rest is just noise and propaganda designed to make their positions sound palatable.
I don't see any place for that in a healthy political system.
I disagree with you, but respectfully. Conservatism is basically just people who, for a variety of reasons (not all of them bad), generally vote for the status quo. This is human nature. Progressives are willing to push forward but also sometimes without regard to some of the consequences. Also human nature. Some people are bold and some people are timid. Having both around in a balanced way helps us all move forward with careful thought. That system is good overall.
The problem is that conservatives are really moderate democrats now. The modern Republicans are not conservatives. They are fascist cultist morons. I believe I explained myself fairly well in my first post. You might want to read the whole thing next time :)
The only way the red states will change is by getting worse and worse. They will have no doctors, teachers, nurses, lawyers, or corporations that will purposefully live or do their work there if they can help it. If you are a woman, a person of color, a migrant, an LGBTQ person, a child, or anything other than an old white man, the red states are no longer safe for you.
ah so if you're poor, taking care of loved ones, or otherwise unable to move, then your life is acceptable collateral damage? accelerationism has victims.
Yes I totally agree. this sucks. What would you have us do? I already vote blue. That is probably the best thing we can all do. I will not set foot in a bright red state for any reason at this point. That is self preservation and protecting my own family.
ah so if you’re poor, taking care of loved ones, or otherwise unable to move, then your life is acceptable collateral damage? accelerationism has victims.
People who've never been to those states don't realize they're literally a trap.
The rent and cost of living is lower, sure, but so is the pay, and so even if you want to leave you just don't nake enough money to save up. Moving is expensive, and a lot of blue states cost a lot more than red, so it's extremely difficult to not only put money aside to move, but also enough to cover the higher cost of living.
And then what if you can't find a job right away? A lot of folks in the south couldn't afford an education, so we get stuck as unkilled labor which makes it harder to find a living wage.
Meanwhile you have well off people who've never really struggled in the same way aaying it's their fault for not moving sooner, or in a lot of cases accuse them of "refusing help" somehow.
It's tiring and extremely frustrating.
I hear this a lot. If you have a better solution that protects the safety and rights of people leaving, while helping those who can’t? Because if not, you’re not helping. “Stay and suffer because not everyone can leave” is a broken idea. And if you think the current institutional infrastructure is capable of solving this problem, I have a lovely bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.
Florida Republicans are working reeaally hard to kill their state's entire economy right now. Attacking Disney (the state's biggest employer) and undocumented immigrants (the backbone of the state's agricultural industry and a key part of the labor force for various others such as construction and hospitality), driving away teachers by taking away their right to actually teach, etc.
Not to mention denying climate change, as the states is getting ready to spend the next thousand years covered in seaweed 25 feet high.
I wholeheartedly disagree. We need to wake up to a more refined political system. A two party system will not sustain a future. We are in a lull due to the previous 6 years being a total shit show.
However, a healthy political system represents the constituents. Our system represents the representatives. Europe has the right idea and has been doing it a lot longer. Having 12 candidates elected on merit makes the country more productive and satisfied with their choice.
I totally agree. I don't like a two party system, nor did I advocate for one. We need to separate progressive, moderate, conservative, etc from party affiliation. All of those European candidates running all fall on that spectrum regardless of their party. In the US Democrats have progressives, moderates, and conservatives in the same party. The GOP does not, but they used to have much more diversity of beliefs 40-50 years ago. Post civil rights and especially since Nixon, the Republicans have continually devolved into the total fascist shit show that we see today.
If the US would move away from the two party system for elections like Alaska has recently done, we would end up with much better candidates. Ranked choice voting for whoever the best candidate is regardless of party. I would love that.
They don't care.
Drive through WV and let me know how much further it has to fall for them to get it.
Go to full red states and listen to them complain about issues that are 100% state legislature and governor issues. But they find a way to blame Obama, Biden, and still fucking cry about Clinton. Both of the Clintons.
The brainwashing is 100%
I wish there was some kind of fund that we could setup to help relocate the vulnerable in red states (aka everyone but straight white men) but I'm sure they'd figure out a way to mess with it.
There kinda is actually:
https://www.rainbowrailroad.org/
It's limited to LGBTQ+, and I'm not sure how active they are in the U.S., but as the demand for it grows here I'm sure the help they'll allocate towards getting people away from fascists will grow as well.
Slight correction: WE'RE not bickering about Bud Light and Disney, only the right is. Centrists and leftists couldnt give less of a shit. Only one side is having a little removed fit about them.
This is really what's going on. The rich care very little about Disney or drag shows, or trans people, or abortions. They care only about money and power and keeping their money and power.
While we squabble over the minutiae, they're going to continue taking everything we have.
The rich care very much about these things. They want political division and hate towards such groups. It keeps the poor from noticing who’s robbing them
This cannot be good for the stability of the nation.
I heard it put something like this once:
We used to all live around each other, and on the weekends we’d go to the bowling alley and have to listen to each other. It didn’t matter if I agreed with who was talkin, and it didn’t matter if they agreed with me. We talked. We argued. And then we bowled and had fun.
Today, we talk, we argue, and, after the “fuck off”, we get angrier at each other.
Anecdotes are fun, but the reality is this:
State are taking action to eliminate abortion, severely restrict voting rights, alter the state constitution (like in my home state ohio), and gut programs that support poor individuals while giving tax breaks and incentives to the rich.
Outside of the way your neighbors view politics, when your state says "your worthless get out, were looking for someone else" does that really make you want to stay? Is political tension in this country a factor for the comfort that makes people choose a home? Yes. That doesn't mean that where you live in today's day and age significantly defines your rights as a human being.
This isn't true. There was always hate but with social media bad people find more bad people. Hell, when the first issue of captain America came out, it had a picture of Cap punching Hitler. They received death threats, not just on the phone but in the street.
The main difference in my childhood was that I never heard from people of hate because i grew up in a very liberal area. There wasn't a good way for them to organize.
No. We talked, got argued at, and whichever side was louder or more numerous bullied the others into stop talking. Then the dominant side laughed at the others and the others left, or shut up or stewed privately. People were ostracized for being different. There were countless sitcoms and tv shows in the 80s-90s that showcased this exactly and tried to fight it, ideologically.
Now, like-minded people can actually find communities they feel safe in. That's true for LGBT as well as Nazis, so it's a double-edged sword there. I'm not going to say the past was better. Look at gay and trans communities: they were closeted or didn't exist in the past because bigots shouted them down, bullied them and murdered them.
I think this analysis completely misses the why.
The why being that America is a racist country that would rather have less prosperity than social cohesion.
That white Americans would rather close pools than share them with black people.
That white Americans rather the government let them starve than get over their "racial resentment."
American history is written in genocide, bondage, and fear of the other. This is always where it would lead because we culturally refuse to deal with or acknowledge it.
That describes white suburbanites whose main differences were how much they should fund parks and drive away undesirables. Things in which they agreed on wanting to do, but not how.
This rose colored look at history only makes sense if you were straight, white, american.
I think the issue isn't that people can't tolerate each other, and most people I think don't have as extreme views on the issues as we hear about.
The issue is that the vocal minority seized their chance and have the opportunity to actually make the things they want come to be.
People are flying Trump flags in every state, and this dumb fuck is afraid of flying his blue line bullshit. That's not a news article, it's astroturfed crap that AP should be ashamed to publish.
Yes. At some point it stops being just reporting what people are saying. To amplifying what people are saying. There is a ton of money available to prop up and amplify the voice of those that support fascists.
Oklahoma here and am ready to get the fuck out
There are a good number of Okies on here and Mastodon. Welcome!
I actually think Oklahoma is a few years away from a blue tipping point, similar to the effect Denver has had on Colorado, where the urban majority has rapidly tipped things blue.
The awful superintendent is low key the best thing to ever happen to education here—there is a bubbling reaction even within the right to react to him and Stitt’s policies. And turning around education is the only thing needed to stop “blue” families from declining job offers here. Which would cascade the social landscape rapidly.
I hope Stitt opens people's eyes a bit. Guy is the sludge at the bottom of a sewer pipe.
Northern Michigan is about to have the same temp as Tennessee in the next decade. Blue states won't be frigid for much longer and red states are about to swim in the humidity. Still, it varies quite heavily more by terrain than by lat/long.
Thank you for the welcome :). I really hope you are right, but definitely hard to be optimistic.
I just escape that jail, moved to California, it's actually shocking how much nicer it is.
There's a streep aweaper that comes through the neighborhood once a week, so the streets are extremely clean, and like, the roads are actually well maintained. Just from the like, extremely surface level things.
Its not too bad, its just the people and the weather. And the police. And the politics
Transplant now residing in Oklahoma. I wish things would get better. It's honestly almost an embarrassment to live here.
Funny, I just moved to Oklahoma from Seattle and it’s been a nice change of pace.
But why are all the blue states cold?
My husband and I thought about Arizona, or Virginia to get away from one of the highest CoL areas in the country.. but eventually decided to focus on Connecticut instead, because we don't want to be in a red state. With the exception of CA, none of the liberal states are sunny and all of them are expensive!
Haha actually wanting to move to the washington area.
TBF considering red states want to make my existence illegal and send me to jail for being me(Trans) it does make sense for me to go to a place where I'm not threatened. Pennsylvania is more of a purple state but at least I know they aren't going to turn on me for some political points.
From a political perspective, moving to purple states (e.g. PA, GA, AZ, NV, NC, WI, MI) makes much more sense than sorting into blue and red states, which would give Republicans disproportionate power at all levels.
That's a very alarming sign. Polarization of that caliber means we're on a hard Stage 6 on the Ten Stages of Genocide, and everything that follows it is... bad. Very, very bad. You do not want to see what happens at Stage 7 and beyond.
Hate to add to this but we have more recently learned that after the fall of the weimar republic the first target was the trans community. The arguments being made today and the actions being taken are arguments against that communities right to exist. Their have already been shootings based purely on the political leanings of the victim even neighbors shooting neighbors.
I mean, I feel like we're already seeing attempts at Stage 7. I live in California but damn it's fucking scary being a trans person in America right now.
Tbh, I prefer to live in a purple state.
I am in a battleground state, in a pretty rural area, filled with a decent amount diversity, including trump crazies.
I feel I'm doing more good here than living in the city.
I like to get down and dirty, pushing.
(Tbf I am a straight white male, so I can totally see getting out of dodge if that wasn't the case)
I totally respect the stay-and-fight position. Godspeed.
I don't think so, I think this is actually disastrous for Republicans. You have a number of trends and statistics reducing their voter count and appeal in battleground states. Consolidating their base in safe red states hurts them even further here, and some of the people they drive away are going to settle in swing states instead.
It isn't smart from a strategic political position, but it's probably smart from a personal position. Hopefully eventually the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact goes into effect and we don't have to worry about crap like this.
This also isn't accurate. There are bright blue cores of red states like Austin in Texas. I doubt that the wealthier republicans are moving to a trailer park in Alabama.
Important data to understand, there are fewer blue states than red states. These actions allow for Republicans to gain far more power in Government as the states elect the President and Congress. Democrats are essentially giving Republicans full control of the Federal Government which will be used to erode all progressive laws in blue states.
I’d care a lot more about that if I didn’t think the right would try to take power either way, by force if chicanery fails. Why sacrifice your family’s life for a pipe dream when you can shore up blue areas in case we need to secede instead? Your life will be better short-term, and the only way it won’t be better long term is if the fascism you’d have had to fight anyway wins.
The only reason some states are red is due to gerrymandering. Blue voters outnumber red voters by a large margin.
This depends on how you define red and blue. If it's who the state voted for president, then gerrymandering doesn't impact that
That is true.
No shit. NEVER living in a red state
If I could relocate to a state where my views aren't swamped by the overwhelming redness of the state, I would in an instant, but sadly it's not in the cards until retirement.
Yeah... living in a deep red state goes against every bit of my moral fiber. But I can't leave. I can only sit here, helplessly trying my best to vote for equal rights but then I see people are voting for red no matter what is at stake. The party system is trash and it needs to be gone.
Your comment fits me perfectly. Listening to my coworkers discuss the most garbage vitriol and bullshit mental gymnastics to justify they're beliefs while trying to shoehorn them into their religion. Good times
I have a fantasy where DeSantis and his supporters cause Florida to secede, then all the most die-hard evangelicals, fascists and chuds, the worst the republicans have to offer, all flock there to protect their glorious revolution. Then the rest of us can just wall it off and have healthcare, sane governance, green energy, adult discourse, and all the stuff we're prevented from having because republicans refuse to support anything unless it allows them to be cruel to someone.
You can't have a fantasy of Florida leaving without also having Texas leave as well.
You could literally solve pretty much all of America's problems in one fell swoop by eliminating those 2 states.
And then they all become refugees when Florida ends up underwater.
Let them ask Mexico for refuge.
I picture America uncoupling the Florida train car and being able to toot toot toot along to progress, giving Florida a nice wave on the way.
I would throw Texas on that cession hope as well. Too many people in power that have negative empathy for anyone that isn't white, male, rich, and fascist conservative
🤔 So why don't we push for blue states to secede instead of waiting for DeSantis and his cult to do it?
Washington, Oregon, and California are increasingly working together on various topics in a way that makes the region more cohesive. We also largely have very similar cultures, Southern California excluded. I wouldn't much mind us three being our own country.
Because a large group of Northerners (most blue states) tend to associate any secession with the specific secession over slavery in the 1860s, because Texas v. White’s the law of the land, and because the Dems care about rules: They have been bringing policy papers to gunfights since before I was born.
Mod Note: Remember it is okay to argue your positions but attacks against others in the community violates Rule #3 and the Lemmy.world admins require us to moderate those types of comments. Remember not to make things personal! Other than that debate away!
This is the level of stupid we are fighting against... Religion absolutely destroys people's brains.
It’s just too much! Couldn’t make it all the way through the vid. Sorry
It's just fascinating to see how turned off the kids brain is. He's regurgitating talking points without even understanding what he's saying.
He doesn't want to learn, or question anything in earnest, he wants to defend his faith and lies.
It's actually heartbreaking to see what religion does to people.
I'm a progressive living in a red state and I would love to leave, but who has the money or connections to just fucking move states? Like who the hell do I know in Washington state? And because the cost of living tends to be higher in blue states, it's impossible to save enough to move to one of those areas from fucking Arkansas.
It might seem impossible but it's not. Do you live alone? It will be easier to cut costs if you don't need to convince family.
No, it's just me and my wife. But we both have stable, decent paying jobs. Plus it's really the people that make this place terrible, the area itself is beautiful. I was born here, so I'd like nothing more than for this place to be better, but with the current political climate, leadership (both state and federal), and the unwillingness of anyone on the right to even have a conversation about progressive talking points, I just feel really hopeless that anything will ever get better.
I've moved a ton all over. I apply for a job in the place I want to move to and move when I'm successful in landing a job.
We've done it more than once. It was easier this last time due to being fully remote, so no need to get new jobs. The previous time we visited a few times to look at housing and apply and interview for jobs, and when one of us landed one, we sold everything that wouldn't fit in our cars and just drove to the new state. It took a while to get the house fully setup, but it worked out.
It's such a weird time in the U.S.. Also, it might be a better choice to go to a battleground state.
That's what I did. Moved to AZ, which is a purple state, from CA. I joined a writing group here, and one member is an out gay conservative. No way could he have been that outspoken in a casual writing group in CA, he'd have been chased out.
As someone more on the liberal side of things in general, it's incredibly refreshing to be able to hold a good-natured conversation with him involved where he didn't feel worry or concern about discussing his ideas.
We have another lady in the group who writes hardcore far-left poetry, and those are always followed up by great conversations. She's nice and not condescending to the conservative guy.
I love being in a purple state, I wish more states were battleground states.
I live in a purple state in a rural area, and I HATE it. Not because there are conservatives, but because massive numbers of these conservatives are trembling with fear of the other and if they think that I am on their "side" for whatever reason, they won't hesitate to say the most ignorant, racist, bigoted shit about "those people" - essentially anyone who isn't straight and white, while demanding prayer of the exclusively evangelical variety in public meetings. Their world view is so insular that it's suffocating to be around.
I joined a writing group here, and one member is an out gay conservative.
I find it unreal that an LGBTQ person would actually even consider the current Republican Party as a viable option.
Conservatives are going to make it legal to outright murder progressives, so there's definitely safety in living in a blue state
Yikes
Lmao wut?
Should I use words with fewer syllables?
You are legally protected from driving over protestors in Oklahoma. You can pull up the law and argue that it requires the “reasonable belief” that your life was in danger. But all it takes is a jury of conservative Oklahomans to agree that it was okay to flatten a group of BLM protesters. It’s the level of freedom from prosecution that police enjoy.
Meanwhile here I am in Texas barely able to move down the street much less to a state not run by Governor Hot Wheels and his Cavalcade of Corruption.
Wait…do you think the idea that Americans are moving based on politics is propaganda? The Big Sort, as it’s sometimes called, has been an established thing in social science since before most Americans were aware of the concept of Russian propaganda bots, so I have no idea where you’d get such an idea.
As someone born and raised in a very red state and soon moving to a very blue state for a job opportunity, I can’t help but say it’s such a relief. While I’m not moving for the political angle, I’m so excited to live somewhere where educational, labor, and reproductive rights aren’t constantly under assault, where I can have basic expectations of sane (but of course not perfect) government.
I'm jealous. I feel trapped in this red state shithole.
I’m sorry, I know the feeling. Hope you can find your community wherever you are
I wish democrats would make moving to places like Montana, the Dakotas and Wyoming a priority
Who's going to give up their entire quality of life to be a small snowflake hoping to make an avalanche? For the politics, it's a very small contribution. But for the family, it's huge. You'd be losing job prospects, friends and family, activity availability, local politics, healthcare quality and access, and most importantly: being treated like a person if you aren't a right-wing cishet white male of means.
Almost no one's going to take that trade and they shouldn't.
Why would we want to live in a shithole state like that?
The idea is to move there in enough numbers to overwhelm the GOP majority and make the state not be a shithole anymore.
The cost of living in my "red state" is much lower than most places in "blue states" so I'll be staying here and enjoying my financial well-being even though I'm not a Trumptard. While I don't enjoy seeing rednecks everywhere showing off their dumb opinions, I still enjoy having money more than I don't like that other stuff.
Montana and Wyoming are among the most beautiful places on earth. Not sure why the Dakotas were included....
If you bring enough people with you, it wouldn't be a shithole state.
Isn't Montana pretty chill lately? My memory was they passed some pretty sensible stuff in the last few months.
But don't I have to be a republican to like guns, hunting, and outdoorsy stuff?
I think more Democrats moving to swing states like Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, Pennsylvania, North Carolina would be higher priority if people are free to move wherever purely based on political reasons.
You mean lefties. Democrats are neoliberal assholes. And I'm still not moving to some red shithole.
This might be an over simplified approach to a complex problem, but why can’t we just eliminate political parties altogether? I know people will always form groups/organizations/fraternities/etc, but only giving them two (realistic) options just forces them into camps that they might not fully agree with. Sure, you can argue that there are plenty of independent parties to choose from, but when it comes election time, it’s always either “Option A”, “Option B” or your vote doesn’t matter. At the very least, remove the two party system and any other systems that reenforces them.
The whole US political system forces a two party system. You would have to completely change how we do elections to eliminate two parties. The other reason we are stuck in the two party system is because the majority will have total sway and hurt if you shatter into smaller parties. It also doesn't help our system is unequal with Wyoming having 1 senator for every 250k people and 1 representative for 500k. Then dc having nothing and Delaware twice the population having the same power as Wyoming
You would have to completely change how we do elections to eliminate two parties.
Here is a good visual demonstration of why this is the case:
So what are we supposed to do? ~Strawberry
Nebraksa tried that. Made it illegal to display political party names or endorsements on state elections.
Also had a constitutional amendment to the state constitution that if a politician voted against term limits, the phrase "this candidate voted against term limits" would be printed below their name on ballots.
A two-party system will pretty much always emerge in a first-past-the-post electoral system like ours. You want to get past that bifurcation, you’d need to change electoral structure, which is why even Teddy Roosevelt couldn’t get a 3rd party off the ground successfully.
If there is one thing american politics doesnt need it is even fewer parties. It needs more choices. Other countries dont have the issue of only having option A or B. There is a C, D, E, F etc.
I'd be all for it, personally. But humans are innately tribal. "That person is different - I don't recognize them - I don't trust them."
Humans doing something innately can be stopped. We shit wherever, instinctively. We have to be trained to do it differently. Our tribalism can work that way too, but it requires a system people believe listens to them, is fair, and will keep them safe.
It makes me sad that leftists are leaving Florida. They are turning a purple state into a red one. Every sane person that leaves Florida means the ratio gets tilted more and more into the looneys.
People need to stay in red states. Voting blue in Colorado isn't going to do anything
I agree with you in a macro sense, but individually it takes a lot of courage and sacrifice and I’m not sure I’d expect that of anyone. Something systematic has to change.
Remember there are plenty of people too poor to move.
I'm going to stay and vote against every single GOP Trumper until the state goes blue
It will go blue. Just like California was once red. Texas will also go blue.
I am wrestling about this as a resident of Florida. Both my kids are leaving. My trans son is leaving next week and can't use a public bathroom on the way out of the state without causing confusion or chancing arrest. The state doesn't deserve him, Maryland does. As for my husband and I, I just don't know.
Yep I'm still in Missouri basically out of spite now. I did move into the city so at least I'm in a blue area now, but fuck em.
Voting blue in specific locations in Colorado will actually do things. If 600 people from FL moved to Boebert's district and voted blue in 2022 she'd be out of the House. Do that in a couple of districts across the country and Dems would control Congress and be able to actually pass policy again. People can move to blue states and still have an impact; the Presidency isn't the only thing that matters.
I see your point although I'd wager a large majority aren't moving to the red districts
Blue states don't give an egg.
Red states "where you from, and why are you here? Don't take my water".
At least that was last time I visited the Midwest in my own vehicle (but they can't spot rentals very well, treated me like their kin when I didn't have California plates and hid my accent as much as possible)
What Midwestern state was that? A lot of folks don't realize that, outside of big cities and their respective suburbs, most of the Midwest is indistinguishable from the deep south.
The failure of Reconstruction haunts us.
This has been going on since the 1960's. The Big Sort is a really interesting read explaining some of the trends and why it's accelerating.
I agree (and it is a good read), but the specifically political/partisan relsted sorting has accelerated recently.
That isn't a surprise. Things are getting out of control.
Eh, they are becoming so extreme that they are leaving some of their voters behind. They were supposed to win the house in a landslide and they barely hung on. They are losing special elections because their candidates are too extreme. Even the Supreme Court can’t stomach some of their gerrymandering on race. I don’t buy this.
This. The GOP has lost something like 12 out of their last 10 special elections. If demographics have their way, there is a decent chance the GOP won't even be a national party by 2028.
Oh stop!
I am so damn sick of hearing about how the Republican party is dead or dying. People have been claiming this for literally decades now and seemingly every time you think you can count them out, they come back stronger than ever.
I would love to see it happen, but it isn't happening, and to a large degree it is because the Democratic party is sooooo bad at selling their ideas to people and connecting with voters.
No mention of The Handmaid's Tale... I guess it doesn't need saying.
gonna be fun when everyone starting getting get out of red states because of shit political decisions, crime rates, and just stupidity in general(florida is just an example)
If I move it will be because my town was 110F in the shade Monday, not because my neighbors are morons.
I've been wondering about this, in particular in a covid, wfh, world. So many people from traditionally liberal areas (SF/NY/LA) moved to red states, I would assume that it would be assist in turning those states more purple, as some of those states (wyoming/montana/Idaho) won't take that many transplants to start that transition.
Wyoming would be the easiest to change, frankly, and even one red state flipping to purple (or even blue) would change the Senate landscape incredibly. It's nice here; almost all small towns, and even in some of the larger ones it's easy to walk to work instead of driving.
And how nice is it if you are the “wrong” kind of person?
Oh, for sure. It's only 120k that separated Trump/Biden in 2020 in Wyo. NYC alone lost almost 500,000 people to pandemic migration.
Montana was only 99k difference between trump/biden.. and we know that a metric SHIT pile of people moved to Montana in 20-23. (Looking at you Bozeangeles)
Is the majority people liberal on Lemmy?
Yes. By the looks of it, this place is a echo chamber. Sadly.
The reason for this is due to the Reddit exodus. All of the r/politics users moved to c/politics.
It's sad how we can't just talk, and always segregating themselves.
It would be cool if democrats focused more on working class people, rather than just saying they do. That's literally all they need to do to win back millions of voters.
I totally get your sentiment here, but don't they do this by (at minimum at least) the legislation that they try to put in place? Student Loan forgiveness. Expanding educational opportunities. Access to healthcare. Providing more sustainable and green energy sources. Better pay and protections for working Americans. These initiatives constantly get shot down by the other side, and then people blame Democrats for not forcing it through. As long as we have one side actively torpedoing the other's efforts, we can't put the blame on the people trying to do something. Just my two cents though. Plus you have the uneducated people that align with conservatives that think they are the recipients of their platform's initiatives, when it really goes to the top 1%. So they stay in power to continue the grift.
You don't need a college degree to work in the trades. This is a point of contention because I've heard people say many times they don't want their tax dollars going towards someone's liberal arts degree. I'm a wastewater operator. I have a degree but allot of the people I work with don't.
These initiatives constantly get shot down by the other side, and then people blame Democrats for not forcing it through.
I blame the Democrats for consistently finding just enough no votes when we give them a majority.
Yeah so many have been moving to Texas its ridiculous. We can't even build infrastructure quick enough. We're beyond full at this point.
Then we get to watch 100% Red states shoot, disease, and work themselves to death. Then we move back in and get their stuff.
???
profit!
Well, this is no better than /r/politics. Enjoy your echo chamber, commies.
You expect unpopular policies to be popular here?
The wealthy want us to fight a culture war to distract us from the class war we should be having.
.
In any war the only winner is the rich. If the rich lose, then it's called a revolution instead.
Kinda chilling in that format tbh
The rich waged wars on democracy since the beginning of European colonization in North America. They’ve been winning steadily, with few losses since the beginning of money in society.
Democracy is good for the oligarchs. Trump is a populist. The oligarchs definitely don't like him. Even the Koch family is against him.
So do the russians and chinese.
Yes. The rich control both of them