Am I a bad person if (as left as they come) I invest in American Private Prison contractors on the assumption that Trump will go through with his deportation scheme at least to some extent?

Anyone voluntarily participating in the US for-profit prison system is, almost assuredly, a problematic person with questionable morals.

It's literally making money off of slavery. If you would not be proud to call yourself a slave-owner, I'd hope you would also not be proud to invest in slavery.

Royal "you," by the way. Not OP, specifically.

What does it mean “as left as they come”? When you’re interested in profiting from current slave labour and future concentration camps.

Bad isn’t even a category here, you’re a wannabe fascist profiteer

Short answer: Yes

Long Answer: Good lord. Yes, it would be something a bad person would do.

In effect, any gains you make will be blood money. Have fun with that on your conscience.

"listen. I don't WANT Hitler to commit mass genocide. But I am going to fund the company of the gas chambers he plans to use. Because I benefit from it".

It's not a one to one comparison but um. Yeah.

Yes.

Investing to make money off of other's suffering is never justified.

You may as well scream "FUCK YOU, GOT MINE" a little louder.

“I’m not a Nazi”

Said the Nazi, investing in the German military. I’m a friend to the Jews! But I might as we’ll profit off of their incarceration and death, I mean, it’s happening anyway. It’s not like I could instead of thinking only for myself in this time possibly use some of this extra capital I happen to have available to invest and actually do some good with it, but nah.

Yes

Yes. Doing so makes you a hypocrite. Don't worry through, there's no shortage of hypocrisy in America. It's practically a requirement to be at least unwittingly hypocritical. Just by drinking Coke or tipping a waiter you're contributing to a broken system designed to exploit people for maximum profit.

But here's the rub. You can't, in any practical sense, escape that crap, however, you can choose to not deliberately contribute to stuff outside your immediate wheelhouse. It's one thing to buy a chocolate bar out of a vending machine, but investing in Nestle? That's a choice, and one you could have easily skipped. You could skip the candy too, but it's very, very hard (and impractical) to refuse every corporate product ever. Everything, from the materials in your electronics to your mortgage company, to most food from lettuce to frozen chicken, exploits people. But you don't have to voluntarily make the problem worse.

And on the sliding scale of morality, investing in slavery - in this case the prison industrial complex is just greed and indifference to the cost in human suffering. Seriously research it, slavery in all but name has been part of the plan since the Reconstruction era after the Civil War. We never had a justice system; we have a punishment system that hungers for the labor of the downtrodden, especially of minorities.

So if you want to at least try and be a better person, and investing is something you want to do, look into the companies you're investing in. See what their executives are paid compared to their workers here and abroad. There are companies that you can ethically justify investing in - small companies, co-ops, credit unions, pro-union companies, companies actually trying to solve problems or make the world better, like solar manufacturing, etc.

If you want to invest in human suffering, then you're going to have to make peace with being a bad person and being judged for it. I'd advise at least trying not to. It's a hopeless battle, but fighting honorably is its own justification.

I mean you're straight up buying shares in plantations so yes.

“As left as they come”.

Doubt.

"Would I be a bad person if I loaned the neighborhood pusher some money to re-up his fentanyl package?"

Yes

Of course.

Yes lmao

Yes.

"I'm just trying to monetize human suffering. Am i a bad person?"

Actually no, you're not "bad." You've gone so far past bad that bad is just a dot on the horizon in your rearview mirror.

There are other investments that are less... morally questionable...

Like, even investing in real estate is still less morally wrong than literal prison labor.

So first, you need to know that the definition of "genocide" is larger than you probably think.

The 1948 Genocide Convention defines genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". The acts in question include killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group.

Emphasis mine.

Second, hastily-built private prisons constructed for the purpose of keeping a group that has committed no crime in one place long enough to "dispose of" them? They also have a technical term: a concentration camp. If they're also performing work, they're a labor camp.

So what Trump wants to do with Latiné folks is a form of genocide.

Third, there are multiple levels of supporting a genocide, from being a member of the society that created the out-group, all the way up through pulling people from that out-group from their homes. Somewhere in the middle of that list is "voluntarily providing aid to those committing the genocide."

Fourth, each level of support bears a different culpability, and each individual within the levels bears a different culpability based on their knowledge and understanding of what's happening, their intentional decision to participate or not, and the amount of protest they raise at the treatment of the out-group.

So, knowing all of this, where would you put such a decision?

@Adderbox76@lemmy.ca yes

Don't do it, friend.

The better investment generally is to invest in index funds anyways, which makes your hands at least a little bit cleaner.

Yes. Regardless of the second part. Don't invest in private prisons, even if it's sums that would seem inconsequential to the industry as a whole.

Edit:If it's invest in, in the sense of, buy the stock of, I'd still say yes. It still contributes to the success of the industry, even if just minuscully so.

I'm a bit confused as to why you would have to ask this if you truly are "as left as they come" but.... yes of course??

Fuck it, imma say it. Some questions are hella stupid

You'll probably be disappointed. It's a coin flip if they even decide to hand contracts to publicly traded companies vs handing contracts to private companies (and getting their backs scratched in the process) and since everyone and their brother is thinking the same thing you are, you're already paying a ridiculously huge premium, which would eat into any profit.

Look at $GEO, popped like 100 fucking percent in the 2 weeks from November 5 to November 29, just doubled overnight. Seriously doubled on news of Trump winning.

Soooooooo you buy now and sell the news? They're selling the news right now, to you, a bagholder.

FWIW I have a GED, 2 houses, and a dozen corporate finance textbooks, and I wouldn't even buy puts on prison stocks because the IV is fucking nuts.

To quote a random prop trader: You're gonna get mauled, kid

Apparently the left stops somewhere about right of centre - what a quaint political system the US has.

Yes. Bad.

Do you remember the part in Schindler's list where his factory's weapons and ammo were all out of spec and couldn't be used?

Short freedom

In theory if you could use any profits to make counter-investments or buy enough stock to be able to influence them to move in a different direction then your strategy might be viable, but unless you literally just buy 1 share to be able to harass them at stockholder meetings then in all likelihood your money is doing more harm than good.

Best to just straight up invest in organizations that are effective in stopping these things and influencing policy against them.

I think the private prison system is one of the worst institutions in the world. I think the reality of the stock market has no connection to capital reinvested into businesses vs shareholder dividends. Investments at this scale are not like giving a three person startup 2 million dollars. They're not growing their businesses by putting it all into capex.

Are you an asshole for gambling on whether Trump will keep his word, using the systems in front of you? Dare I say it? No. You're not.

Sorry about the ugly comment you are receiving. Seems people on lemmy love to enforce the godwin's law.

My opinion: be careful, all the anti immigration rhetoric is just ineffective gesticulation (like with the wall). A lot of nothing to please the racist population... and scare the illegal workers so they accept slave wage, thus enriching the owners of hotels, farms, restaurants.. etc.

The prison wont gain much , or at least not as much as some traditional business

I don’t think it’s bad to profit from the US economy even though some of those profits would end up being by very evil means. At least in that way, you don’t really have a choice as the economy is very interconnected.

But in this scenario you do have a choice, there are plenty of ways to invest and make money without going out of your way to be extra evil.

Unless you got hundreds of thousands in assets to invest, you are only gambling on the suffering and slavery.

I would also ask yourself if this is beneficial at all.

Look at their historical prices. Investors have already bought into this.

I say who the fuck cares what some Internet randos think. I bet you ten shares that more than a handful of the people taking about ethical conundrum didn't even vote this past election.

The only thing that matters is can you live with it? If you can, go for it and make a buck working within the confines of Americans values because if you don't, someone else will.

I'll tell you that I don't regret buying into the reddit IPO despite its various ethical scandals and going forward here my family and future matters more at this point than anything the average American says since they voted or say on their asses and literally didn't vote for all of this.

Yes

The world won't be any better if you don't. The only difference is what you'd feel about it yourself.

If you think you see an opportunity go ahead and invest and don’t feel ashamed. Many of the Hispanic immigrant communities that will adversely be affected by mass deportation had high levels of Trump support.

I say fuck it and make a buck. May those who voted for Trump get exactly what they voted for.

The question of morality in investments is not absolute; it depends on how one frames responsibility and agency.

Markets are amoral tools. Financial markets operate independently of moral judgments. When individuals invest in an industry, they are not necessarily endorsing its practices but recognizing an opportunity within existing systems. One can argue that targeting an investment does not equate to creating or exacerbating the problems within that industry.

The existence of private prisons and deportation schemes reflects systemic issues, not individual investors. Policies and demand for incarceration stem from government choices and public sentiment. As such, targeting investors as "bad people" shifts focus away from the policymakers and institutions enabling these systems.

Some may justify these investments pragmatically: by securing financial stability, individuals can later support progressive causes, donate to charities, or fund organizations fighting for systemic change. For example, an investor might use the returns to support immigrant advocacy groups or lobby for prison reform.

There is algo "Separation of Investment and Values". Not every decision must align with one’s ideological framework. People often compartmentalize their personal lives from their professional or financial strategies. A leftist could rationally engage in capitalism as a survival mechanism within an inescapable capitalist framework while still advocating for systemic change.

Many industries—tech, energy, or agriculture—have problematic practices, from exploitative labor to environmental harm. Singling out private prisons overlooks the broader complexity of investing in any sector. Most portfolios inadvertently include industries with ethical concerns, such as fossil fuels or fast fashion.

Defending this investment as not inherently immoral hinges on the premise that financial actions alone do not define someone’s character. Morality lies in how individuals balance their actions, mitigate harm, and contribute positively to society. However, ethical investments often require introspection and alignment with long-term values. While investing in private prison contractors can be defended on pragmatic or systemic grounds, it’s worth questioning whether the financial gain outweighs the potential ethical compromise.

I don't think so - the stock market is extremely detached from fundraising in the modern world and if that company decided to fundraise it'll mostly do so on the back of mutual funds and uni endowments.

I personally find divestment is a pretty ineffective personal action in terms of individuals.

I think you'd be awfully surprised calling yourself "as left as they come" on here. There are some people who are so far out in left field that they come back around on the right again. Lemmy is full of anarcho-communists and people who believe that ownership of property is akin to murder.

Nope. Name a company or even an investment that isn't evil. Would you want to invest in it? If you tried to avoid all of them it would be a very difficult life.

The way I look at it, someone is going to profit off a that suffering, might as well be me.

Depends on how much you're investing. Is it an amount that is not a drop in their bucket? Congrats, you're evil.

Is it chump change to any millionaire? Don't sweat it. You're literally incapable of changing the course with your buy in.

Lots of people saying it's bad to do as a blanket statement might be in horror if they find out the labor practices that go into any of the goods they purchase. There's no ethical consumption in capitalism. Doesn't matter if you're investing shares or buying a cheeseburger.