Google will block sideloading of unverified Android apps starting next year

I'd go Lineage / Graphene (?) next year

They can't even handle the apps on their store...

This a massive overreach and so stupid when nowadays apple even relaxed their limitations a little, I heard that iOS users don't need to jailbreak anymore to use outside apps. What will be the point of android?

If they end up blocking f-droid I'm bombing them

I'll provide the explosives

I don't know anything about jailbreaking android phones yet, but are there resources for getting into doing this to my current android and taking responsibility for security myself?

It's called rooting on Android, but you may have issues with banking apps blocking your phone, you will need a locked older phone to use them.

Can we still load custom roms? It's been a while since my last install of Lineage OS.

If that's not an option either, well, Linux phones I'm coming!

The android dream is over. It was fun while it lasted. My next phone will be linux

Use alternative ROMs while that's still an option.

Can we have mainstream Linux phones now. Fairphone is nice

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/20993138

So Android is pointless now?
No, really. If I'm gonna be dragged kicking and screaming into the walled garden, why would I go with Google's joke of an ecosystem instead of much nicer and better integrated Apple garden?

I might as well start carrying one of those weird branded ultra-tiny laptops from AliExpress and some used, older iPhone for the 2 apps I need.
Fuck it. Throw out the baby, the bathwater, the bathtub, the whole damn thing. Fuuuuck it.

i have a feeling that google largely gave up on making a decent phone for a while, all they want is your data, plus to put thier AI into everything to offset the cost of using AI.
- To be fair, they never cared about making a decent phone. They have always just wanted your data. They are a marketing company and you are the product up for sale.

I thought the EU said that Google and apple have to permit other app stores? If that is the case they'd have to allow side loading in effect.

As long as the developer of the app store undergoes registration

\ (lemmy.blahaj.zone/30883044)

How can that be legal?

Because Apple does it

Fuck.

they saw how apple is profitable from being completely walled in garden.
Wasn't it made illegal on Europe?

For your security we're going to block your access to FOSS and apps that let you avoid our ads. This is totally not a business decision. Pinky swear.

and avoid our datamining capabilities, and the intrusive AI we keep pushing on unwanted customers. we knew thier android core app(spyware) was the first step. they probably want that to permanantly installed into everyones phone.
for the greater good
This good is gonna be so great after we lose everything to the worst of us.

I heard that they're probably going to be using the Google Play store and probably similar modules to play protect to enforce this. So the question becomes will disabling the Google Play store bypass this? It outright kills play protect dialogue as well as its app disabling capability as a whole since play protect is part of Google Play store.

Time for a hard fork.

Yeah, need them hardware manufacturers too.
\ We would have plenty of Linux phones if drivers were open sauce or even just available closed sauce.

Google says it's no different than checking IDs at the airport.

You're not a fucking airport, Google!

Also we bought and own the fucking plane! Don't tell us where we can fly to!
- Better. We bought the airport. Google was paid to pave the runway and maintain it for a couple years after. And now they try to dictate that only planes they approve may start and land.
i dont need to show id to fly domestic...

No one talking about how this could completely annihilate open source .apk development? First off the lead dev has to get identity verified to get a key, which will reduce the number of devs willing to push through friction to start a project. Then when the key is issued and it is posted to the repository, what keeps anyone from grabbing it and using it for another repo? We'll they have an official app registration of some kind, ok, what about version control? Does every new version have to be registered before it can be loaded and tested? Same for forks?

This is about to be a terrible mess, Google is assassinating FOSS with this.

It will kill everyone that is playing around with the phones. I have done a couple mobile projects where I just sideloaded the package I created to quickly test it and to demo it to people. Now that I can't do that why would I develop for your platform by choice.
You distribute the code without your key and a built package that is signed. This isn't exactly rocket science.
Anyone who forks the code will have to use their own key to install a package they built.
It's just unnecessary red tape.
- How will fdroid work
- It's just unnecessary red tape.
  Which will reduce the number of people using foss apks, which will in turn, reduce the motivation, and then the number, of foss apk developers.

Google has been been cracking down on installing .apk's on your phone for years and they're getting more and more aggressive about it. It's not a question of if they'll disallow it completely, but when.

It's already extremely tedious. Back in the Android 2.3 days (oh, good old Gingerbread) you could just get an APK and install it, but those times are long gone.

Years ago they threatened the developer of Total Commander to remove his app from the PlayStore unless he patched out an APK install feature, so he was forced to do that.

Now another example: Try to install eBay on a phone that is not passing device integrity. It is not listed on the PlayStore because your device doesn't pass safety checks. You can grab an APK and install it, but the OS will check if the app has been installed through the PlayStore and if it hasn't, it will complain and close itself.

GrapheneOS has patched that bullshit out, btw.

And this behaviour happens with all apps where the developer has enabled the "App Integrity" option, which is heavily pushed as a super-great security feature. So developers might just enable that feature, not being fully aware of the implications.

As you can see, it's one method at a time, slowly but surely, until Google fully controls the ecosystem. The intention behind that is pretty clear: They don't want people to have AdAway and Revanced, they want money and user data. And they also want you to login to the PlayStore, get hooked on their stupid daily points challenges and spend your hard-earned money on virtual crap.

This is textbook enshittification, it will only get worse from here on.

AdAway can be easily emulated using a DNS server...
- Yeah I carry that DNS server around with me in the other pocket /s

any good replacement phone OSes out there?

Graphene and PostmarketOS. Biggest issue is banks and other organisations that only want to make apps that run in locked down environments. There needs to be a real push to bring in legislation to make this stuff work.
Not until this pain is felt and developers see an opportunity

My phone is not an airport. It's a garbage collection machine found in a trash, with a battery so it looks portable. I don't need an ID to use it, nobody will ever need.

Hve linux nerds invented a new OS for phones yet? I think I'm gonna need one

Postmarket OS is getting there. It only runs at all on a couple dozen older phones. And they don't currently have receive voice. But 2 months ago they didn't have 4G data or send voice so...
Oh, and battery life is not good.
My next mobile device will likely be a small tablet running Linux and a Wi-Fi hotspot.
They did, it's not great and device support is very limited.
- At this point I'm thinking of just carrying around a small touchscreen laptop
- From what I can tell most of the roadblock is drivers for hardware support. Basically every price of hardware has to have a reverse engineered driver to work. We need hardware mfrs on board to really gain traction in this arena.
  Still, I'm pretty sure my next phone is going to be a Linux phone. I know I'll lose functionality but if I can make calls, send texts, and browse the web I'll get by. Hopefully that space keeps gaining traction and it won't be long until it is a truly viable option to replace google/apple products.
Yes, and its pretty great on devices you can install it on.
Problem is? Its not possible to install on most phones.
- and most phones are newer, which are harder to crack.

The current trends and direction of tech is making me want to become Amish...

I'm getting so fucking sick of everything turning into shit, what's even the point of fucking point anymore? This is borderline kernel level enshitification

The Amish that I grew up near were big into shunning, child marriage, sexual abuse, not talking to the cops, and lots of drugs.
I'm just saying it might be easier to switch to open source or something.
- not talking to the cops, and lots of drugs.
  TIL I'm 2/5ths Amish
Go outside and touch grass.

It also becomes no different than iPhone, so.. what's keeping me to android if they do this? Or hey, maybe I'll commit to de-googling. I have CoMaps, I'm planning to setup nextcloud soon... Hell, I don't even buy anything on Google play anymore since it's so shit, i have no purchases tying me to the OS. Maybe I'll buy a cheap old iPhone so I can finally use imessage with everyone that's been bitching about me and use other tech for everything else.

(I'm not going to iPhone, but the point stands)

I left iphone because of a walled garden issue, was thinking about working with my parents off of iphone so I can actually assist with them because I've been off of it for decades.
Instead may be the other direction because at least iOS has a modicum of privacy by at least telling the US government to make their own back doors instead of just licking the boot like google does. I'm not a fan of apple by any stretch of the imagination, but at this point of the falling apart world fuck it, I gotta figure out what the least evil is, even if it's only marginal.
- I’m not a fan of Apple either (I have mostly Apple stuff except for a Linux gaming machine). But they are the lesser of the two evils. At least in my opinion. Google is openly selling your data and making them richer in the process. At least Apple says they don’t sell your data. I don’t know if they do. But I’d doubt it tbh
I'm wondering why I even need a smartphone at this point. I'm tempted to go back to a flip phone.
- I guess the next question is, which of those is actually better? If those collect data too, then how do we get out of this damned mess.
The only reason I still have Android is work apps in required to have that won't work properly without the Play Store. I guess I could carry two phones but I am definitely not that guy.
That is precisely one of my main lines of reasoning; I've thought about this for a long, long time, and I'm switching to Apple iPhone. I'm keeping a Oukitel Titan for Android stuff ((Grayjay)). But I'm getting the 17 Extra Pro Max Plus Plus or whatever for a main.

I'm probably going to spam this around a bit, since most people don't seem to know about it, but a reminder that FuriLabs has a (GNU+)Linux phone with decent spec.s and the ability to run Android app.s (from what I've heard) pretty decently: https://furilabs.com/

Biggest drawback is it's based on Halium. Usual growing pains of a new product/company apply but apparently the company is pretty responsive and their dev.s have worked with customers to get things like calling working with the carrier and bands of their country where it hasn't worked before so improvements move pretty quickly.

Collection of different experiences I've variously seen online over the last year or so:

I don't own one, myself, so I can't give any personal experience but I've seen it around for a few years now but most people don't seem to even know about it. Maybe there's a reason for that? But none I've ever seen anyone say.

Wait, what the hell?

I can't believe this, who the hell are they to decide what I should install?

They are welcome to curate their own store, but sideloading concerns only the user.

Hopefully, the EU and other jurisdictions block this.

Fucking corrupt American oligarchs.

The EU can't even distribute their own apps without Play Integrity. Seems unlikely they will care.
Hopefully, the EU and other jurisdictions block this.
This is very similar to the notarization process Apple introduced to comply with the EU requirement of allowing third-party stores, and yet the EU doesn't seem concerned (maybe because Apple did not allow third-party stores in the first place, will it be different for Google?)
- Not an Apple user, so I didn't know about this. Extremely disappointing.
  It really does seem avoiding any and all American services/products (to the extent possible, with exceptions where reasonable) is the only way forward.
  I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that the US is a ethical, cultural and even economic dead end. Yes even economic, only a fool would believe intense corruption and broad support of criminality and corruption among the population will not have any negative effects in the future.

only malware i have read about on android have came from google's oh so safe store.

Google says it's no different than checking IDs at the airport

What, and Google is now the TSA? Fuck that shit. I've paid for my device, I get to do whatever the hell I want with it!

google is pretty aggressively trying to datamine people for a while, Reddit is thier playgound.
Okay, let’s check ids wherever you leave the house, since that’s the sane as checking them at the airport.
Papers please, right?
- google likely has that data already, use any of thier apps, they got it, searching on google, taking pictures, emails.
I've paid for my device, I get to do whatever the hell I want with it!
You bought a phone but is leasing the software. It's not yours to do with as you please.
Have you considered using fully open source android versions?
- No custom ROM on a recent smartphone technically gives you a fully open source Android system when they rely on vendor-provided proprietary blobs in order for basic hardware functionality to work at all. Unless you want to go without a modem, GPS, and likely more depending on your model, at which point it's functionally no longer a smartphone.
  Open-source custom ROMs are at least far more open-source than the alternative in most of the ways that matter most, including the ability to change the code in order to remove app installation restrictions, to avoid Google's telemetry, etc.
- The few options that exist (along with their negatives) can't be installed on my phone. N20U is still pretty much locked down.
- Open source Android is a thing??? TIL that might be my solution to this long term since I sideload apps regularly.

Google can get fucked. I feel like there will be a nontrivial market for de-googled or older and unlocked Android phones after this. If they manage to kill off custom roms with their previous AOSP rug pull I'll go back to using a (subpar) Linux phone or maybe even one of those cheap flip phones.

Don't worry we can just install Graphene OS on Pixel phones, there is no problem with my plan !
- feels funny that you have to buy a phone from google to get around google's actions...
I started joking that my next phone will be a Nokia 3310. I feel more and more each day like that should just be my actual next phone
- Funny enough, Nokia started making cheap flip phones and some others in that form factor again. My daughter asked to replace her smartphone with one of the flip phones. It was only $70, so I got her one. It's build quality is what you would expect, but it works and has GPS at least.
- There's more and more people who feel just like you do. I'm so exhausted of all these companies being predatory and anti consumer. I'm the type to stand my ground and abstain or find alternatives, but it feels like there's 5 people who don't care and 4 people who will just let it go for every person willing to boycott bullshit.

How about we abandon proprietary locked-down launcher sandboxes on our phones and just run regular old Linux on them like we do on the desktop?

Isn't that what PostmarketOS is? Is there some bullshit firmware issue in the way of that? What exactly is stopping us?

The difference is that mobile phone hardware is commonly more locked down by default than x86 hardware. Whatever phone you have now likely has some weird shit on it that makes it really difficult to do anything but what the manufacturer wants you to do. What Microsoft is trying to do with Win11 and TPM 2.0, has basically already been done with many brands of smartphone. I've been trying to research affordable smartphones to daily drive that are also de-googled, and hours of research has resulted in me struggling to use a pinephone. The hardware, the software, they're just not there, either. It's not like desktop Linux where really it's better than Windows if you give it a chance. Mobile FOSS OSes might be daily drivable if you try really hard.
- What OS did you put on it and what issues have you run into? I've been considering the Pinephone Pro because it seemed both more flexible and cheaper than a Librem.

Let Google know what you think: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfN3UQeNspQsZCO2ITkdzMxv81rJDEGGjO-UIDDY28Rz_GEVA/viewform

they will just ignore it.
Not touching that website with a 10’ pole, spyware confirmed.
- It's the official feedback form from https://developer.android.com/developer-verification
  You didn't confirm anything.

Any developer of piracy or emulation related software will not apply for the registration, because the trail will point to they official identity, opening a flank to legal actions. This will kill piracy in Android.

Half agree, there are official emulation apps on the play store right now. I literally just downloaded drastic on a off brand tablet.
Whilst this is true, it's also a good reason to move to self hosting if possible.
I've been slowly removing my reliance on these ad filled services, even though the apks I use have ads removed, and this news just gives me more reason to ramp this up since these same APKs may no longer work without some trickery by 2027 (if they go with this plan).
Still, this all seems like constant patchwork as any and all effort is being taken to rid ourselves of control over our devices. It's an iffy situation and I just hope people smarter than myself will continue fighting, in some manner.
RetroArch ist not a tool for Piracy and u can pretty much emulate anything with it

So I guess my next phone will be a Chinese phone. Even if it spies on me, I'll have the freedom to install whatever I want from anywhere.

The Chinese have a golden window of opportunity. Let's hope they don't mess this up.

LOL. Chinese phones are way worse, they simply block installations of "unsanctioned" apps with no workaround.
My wife is Chinese and I used to live there for 7 years, it's an absolute privacy nightmare.
- As someone who uses a Xiaomi phone, that's not true.
  It was a faff getting it to install any random apk I found of off the Internet, but it was possible. Did involve holding down a graphic for 10 seconds as part of the unlock procedure.
  But for now at least, you can still install any unsigned apk without going through a store.
- I have a Xiaomi 14 pro, I just have to tap the correct button to install an outside app. (It's in Chinese, even though the phone is set to English, so i have no idea what it says but it gets me there).
- So many people don't understand this at all. China is still the same as when the tanks were rolling over college students.
- If you dont want to put a custom rom on it (which is becoming increasingly difficult), you're can buy a HK version off taobao.
- Way easier to install a custom rom
I guess if GrapheneOS finally gets spoken to by a manufacturer interested in filling this market gap, that would be awesome too.
Hell, maybe it could be a chinese manufacturer.
- GrapheneOS is currently actively talking to a major Android OEM in order to help them reach the security requirements for a subset of their future devices. If that succeeds GrapheneOS will be able to run on non-Pixel devices.
I am very happy with my One Plus 13 phone. It has better hardware and was at a better price than Samsung's S25.
- Samsung used to be good. I used to always buy samsung but since I can't affort a "high end" device, I go with the medium end ones, and samsung medium end ones are terrible for the price. So instead of getting a medium end samsung, you can get something better and cheaper on another brand
So you either need to put a custom/global rom on it, get the hk version, or pay like 20% more for a global version.
- Bonus problems, AT&T in the US kicked off the international phone versions a while back. They worked fine. I have a bunch of leftover G4 international versions that they up and banned one day around 2020. The terrible US version remained allowed.

God I wish not everything was American

Pretty sure my iPhone is from China.
- Lol
And that's the biggest issue. Every hoddam thing in tech is American.
- We really need some global competition in tech. It's the main reason why I'm rooting for China when I read that they're developing new consumer tech. Bring some damn competition and hopefully these American tech companies will learn to stop enshitifying their products.

This is complete BS

Its 2050, you are waiting outside of the HR Office waiting for them to talk to you. You're certain that your job has just been replaced by a robot.

Fuck this shit, you thought, 90% of the people are unemployed anyways, fuck this 16 hour shift.

You pull out your hand terminal (yes a "hand terminal", as "smartphones" no longer have local storage now, almost all computing is done on cloud) and start typing in your journal app: "Down with the regime, Down with tyranny!". You tap "save".

"Action not authorized. This incident has been reported"

2 seconds later, you can hear sirens in the distance growing louder and louder.

it will be worst, since most people wont have jobs, and are outside the cities in SLUMS. think ds9 2024 episode, or 4400 show.
This gas no basis in reality. No way that society makes it to 2050.
- The ultra wealthy are building bunkers. Preserving any form of society no longer interests them.

I know it’s not for everyone, but my Light Phone III arrives soon and tech headlines of late aren’t making me regret my choice.

This device looks really interesting, but I don't see anything on their site about how I can write software for Light Phone, or install anything except what they provide through their app.
How is that any different from what Google plans to do to Android?

That's a sure way to get me off of your OS. FAFO I've already dropped M$ products.

99% of the people won't care and continue using it anyway. The other 1℅ isn't nearly enough to keep any non AOSP OS alive.
- IDK, I'm pretty sure in capitalism the line is supposed to go BRRRRR. People leaving a platform or service isn't good for their bottom line. The only way to teach these corps is to hit em in the wallet.
- If postmarket gets the drivers under control, we can be running relatively vanilla distros on them. There's already a version of NixOS that leans on postmarkets work to run Nic right on a dozen different phones
  You just need a window manager that can handle touch, small form factor, and just a couple of gigs of RAM. And there are already projects doing that.

I first read the original report from Android Authority thinking it would only be an additional hurdle for third-party stores and developers, but I'm now thinking that it would potentially block the use of ReVanced

and any apk installed eventually, and custom OS, that doesnt come from the google store front. im not tech savvy but im using apk of many apps right now. if only someone can develop a "storefront" where it seperate from google.
- I mean, there’s fdroid…. For now
Yeah I don't know what they'll block yet but I'm already assuming some of my apps will be blocked. It's pretty terrible news. I really didn't want to have to hunt down a phone that was compatible with alternative OS's.
- From my understanding, it will only allow apps that were registered, so since ReVanced uses identical package names to the patched apps, it probably won't work unless they start using ReVanced-specific package names that are tied to their identity. But that would allow Google to block these package names (or ban ReVanced completely) if say, Spotify or YouTube complain about them.
Unless revanced somehow gets the APKs resigned it will almost certainly destroy revanced.
- What if I come up with a random package name, like "online.discuss.jim3692", register that name and a keypair, and then build ReVanced using that name and keys?

Wao, how is this going to work if now they are required by law to allow third-party stores in Android? What the fuck?

3rd party stores count as verified.
- Yeah, I usually download directly from the release in the repos (github, Gitlab, Codeberg, etc) with obtainium. F-Droid only if there's no alternative, and Aurora if it only exists in Google Play. This is a game changer for the worse.

If you have a non-Google build of Android on your phone, none of this applies. However, that's a vanishingly small fraction of the Android ecosystem outside of China.

Linux-based Android build when?

Android is already based on Linux. But in general there are FOSS phone OS's. GrapheneOS being the dominant player
- If the dominant player is an OS that supports a total of seven phones, the entirety of which are strictly Google branded, were fuckin' doomed.
- needs to be a full linux based and controlled os base though since graphene is most likely dead in the water as more phone manufacturers make it impossible to unlock the bootloaders.

And in one fell swoop, Google just took a baseball bat to its own kneecaps.

Because people have so many other options...

Looks like I'm gonna just carry a stock phone, give it nothing but the most basic information and tether it to a laptop over a VPN. They stop tethering? I'll use VOIP and a hotspot.

Welcome back to 2011. Maybe messenger bags will come back into fashion in foss culture.

Run Lineage on your phone of choice.
Or if you're paranoid, a Pixel with Graphene.
- ...What about after September 2026?
  Well, there's one teensy tiny caveat.
  Google says that only apps with verified identities will be installable on certified Android devices, which is virtually every Android-based device—if it has Google services on it, it's a certified device.
  So, in theory... no gapps, no approval necessary?
  Open devs just have to have two versions, as many already do, one signed with Google's spyware and one on github/fdroid with nothing.

fuck google!

Who can I donate to that is working on making alternative OS accessible on android or iphones?

I know there are alternative OS already out there but they aren't as universally accessible compared to how Linux can run on any PC.

FUTO has some good initiatives to follow.
PostmarketOS is the biggest player. UBPorts (formerly Ubuntu Phone) is another. And of course there are lots of projects like Plasma Mobile, Nemo, or Mobian.
Problem is we need vendor like pinephone maybe fairphone,which will able to run give us freedom what to run on device hunting and seeking for vendor which allowing to unlock bootloader and then install custom os it sleepery slope because it's not know how longer they will let to do it
- i have the OP just incase, but im hearing they want to soft-lockdown it too. is fairphone even available outside the EU? in the us.
- If they lock bootloaders, whats the best way to force it work even the vendors don't want it to?

If Android sideloading needs to be verified by googld for "Security" then Maybe IOS seems like a viable option (except for the price and price to repair) but man i wish Linux on smartphones Has a good ecosystem of apps.

iOS is still worse, because you're then confined to whatever is in the App Store, which Apple take a 30% cut of.
- oh yeah, true.

What does this mean for F-Droid?

Every developer wishing to offer applications on F-Droid will have to register their identities and package names to Google for Android devices to install their apps, regardless of the distribution platform (F-Droid, Obtainium, GitHub releases, etc.)
- google can unilaterally decide if they dont like it, they cant have it in the store.
- Doesn't fdroid build everything from source (in the main repo)? There's no way Google would allow them to do that with their own developer keys.

So looks like graphene is the future. Away from android and iOS. Any other alternatives OS and phone to look at?

Isn't graphene having a challenging future because they have vendor locked themselves into pixel phones and said vendor is pulling the rug by not providing drivers going forward?
- GrapheneOS has largely worked around this by automating creating device support themselves using "adevtool". The current Pixels' hardware supports installing third-party OSes and will continue to do so, they will support those Pixels until EOL. For future Pixels (Pixel 10 series has not yet launched, only available for pre-order), it remains to be seen whether they still fully support installing third-party OSes. If they do, GrapheneOS will also support them, but it might take much longer to implement device support because they need to make this by themselves and this is more difficult doing it from scratch than being able to use the old Android device support for it as a base, like they could do for the existing devices when Google did their rugpull.
  They have not really vendor locked themselves for the future. They have hardware requirements listed in their FAQ: https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support Google just happened to be the only company meeting those requirements, which weren't even that strict, becuase other OEMs just didn't prioritize security.
  But, there is good news. GrapheneOS is currently in active talks with a major Android OEM right now in order to help them meet the security requirements for a subset of their future devices. They are very optimistic about that.
lineageos does support far more phone vendors; who knows what pixel phones will be like in the future
I'm hoping on fairphone to get graphene support 🤷
- They won't get GrapheneOS support becuase they don't meet the hardware requirements: https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support They are actually very far removed from meeting them, compared to OEMs like Samsung.
- Thanks!
Graphene is also based on AOSP, which Google makes worse on purpose. I don't think they'll allow other devices to exist forever, or rather not in a way that's compatible with "real" Android (aka Google-infested). The only proper solution is to focus fully on the new Linux Mobile ecosystem and become independent from Google-maintained shit (and hardware - Graphene is based on Google Pixels, they literally exist at the mercy of Google). Otherwise they will fuck you over again and again. Not saying getting Linux Mobile on par will be easy, but it's our only true, permanent option aside from rejecting smartphones altogether.
- That’s true. Fair point.
Graphene is locked to google hardware, so google effectively holds the keys to graphene too
- Only because Graphene is about using a security chip.
  Lineage isn't, so runs on more devices. I'd argue most people don't have risks that require the security of Graphene.
  But the moment another phone manufacturer decides to use a similar security chip, Graphene will be on it.
- I understand what you mean, as in GrapheneOS is a bit dependent on Google right now allowing third-party OS support. But, you have used words which actually mean something different in the software world. Keys often refers to signing keys for software and it's important to note that Google doesn't control those keys for GrapheneOS at all. GrapheneOS owns the keys, and signs all of their builds locally.
Now I'm wondering if Harmony OS is going to break out of China.

Does anyone have try https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ Or c2 https://shop.jolla.com/

How many carriers support it? I've legit been eyeing this for months for the next phone, but have never gotten a good answer
- Assuming you are in US, it seems dependent on ATT backbone. That is not a complete turnoff for me. I use ATT and the covereage is almost perfect. I cannot recall the last time I lost service.
  I would be willing to call the company with questions and try it for everyone, assuming the pass the qusstions. Do you send ifo to AI like fairphone? Do you have any deals with Google? Are you open source?
350$USD and runs linux ? HOW have I not heard of this ?
- Jolla is definitely interesting, but search around, there are caveats.
  One notable thing is that until pretty recently they were on a subscription model for OS updates, that turned a lot of people off. I get the need for continued funding, but definitely not something I'd want to deal with on my phone.
  Also, for me personally, my phone is partially for work too so it needs to be compatible with that or else I honestly probably don't really even need a phone. Jolla has some preliminary support there, but there's no way it could pass our requirements for MDM compliance at my company and I doubt it would for most others. There are things that are non-optional there in relation to audit requirements that a lot of very different companies all have to comply with and it's just not compatible with the idea. That's probably going to be the major sticking point for any smaller players trying to break into the mobile market.
  I might consider a Jolla tablet if they gave it another shot, but we do have a lot more options in the linux non-phone portable space.

2026 year of the Linux phone?

golly gee whiz it sure looks like I'm finally getting around to getting off the stock android on my Pixel, I've been lazy and dragging my feet for some time. Thanks, Google, this is just the kick in the pants I needed!

If you’re technical enough to sideload Android apps, you’re probably technical enough to install Graphene too.

*if you have a Pixel device (that aren't that great, actually).
- A pixel phone is something like 9 months of minimum wage in my country.
- Pixels are good, what are you talking about?
- I have no issue with my older Pixel devices. You're use-case isn't everyone's use-case.
- If you can't have Graphene or Calyx (once they're back up) there's still /e/OS, they also got a 1-Click Installer for a few devices. As well as a how-to for several hundred. And iodeOS I guess.
If google is gonna ban sideloading, surely they will lock their bootloaders first.
- Leaving in the bootloader unlock gives people who want to retain sideloading a place to retreat to that google still ultimately controls. Which is more appealing to a sociopathic corporation than cutting people off entirely
- I see it this way.
  Google wants everyone using gapps to be identified but isn't outright saying you can't use Android without certification.
  "Google says that only apps with verified identities will be installable on certified Android devices, which is virtually every Android-based device—if it has Google services on it, it's a certified device"
  So LOS and Graphene may get off the hook on this and be able to install whatever non-google apps they need. By default, neither have google services.
  Sucks for the gapps people, but, I mean. They knew it was coming, right?
If you have a compatible phone. As long as the allow those compatible phones to be made.
Sidelading apps on android is never technical anyone could install an apk. It's just the safety that you need to be technical when doing so. Also fuck my phone which doesn't allow unlockibg bootloader
- You're over estimating common users
- At least on Samsung phones, they used to have you open the Settings (this is enough to deter 50% of non technical users) and look for an allow button which is protected by two fullscreen danger warnings (there goes the other 50%)
Even I was able to get GrapheneOS running on my old Pixel >.>

I believe disabling play protect turns this off

Edit: no it doesn't. This is play integrity API which can't be disabled and will be in the APK itself.... hopefully it can be patched out

xcuse me what the hell

As Samsung is blocking custom ROMs with OneUI 8, I seriously need to look into alternatives. Does anyone have good experience with a custom ROM on a S25 Ultra? The only thing I really worry about are my banking apps. I need those to work.

I use /e/OS, my office mate uses Graphene. All our banking apps (I have like 3, lol) work flawlessly. However, once you go down this road, there is always a chance that they stop working in the future, as Google introduces more bullshit like this or Play Integrity.
- people might have to considered a stock android just to use the bank apps on a cheap phone, and one for personal use.
- Just use apps like Hermit or Native Alpha and use the banking website like an app.
I just use my banking through the web UI. Why do you need an app for it? If it's for check deposits, try using an old phone as a dedicated banking device.
If you don't use apps that depend on Google services, consider deGoogling your phone.
- true too, i use my banking app mostly on the PC anyways, because i can just block thier ability with adblockers, tracking,,,etc.

“ but android is open source! You can do whatever you want with it!”

A 20 year-old lie, and I’m glad to see the android worshipers finally realize it was always a load of shit.

You can complain about iOS all you like, but android is no better. It’s about time people started to realize that.

I guess all these years of using apps from outside the Play Store and apps I've written myself have been an illusion.
- You can write your own iOS app and install it on your phone. You just can’t distribute it without paying the troll toll.
- It’s not impossible to sideload on an iPhone. More steps, sure, but not impossible.
There's a world of difference between iOS and Android.
Just look at Lineage and Graphene. Both independently compiled versions of Android. Show me the equivalent in iOS.
It's not so much the OS, it's the users.
I just upvoted a comment which is sure to get downvoted to hell.
You’re right though, the idea that you could “do whatever you want” with android was always a fantasy.
Me right now:
- Can I install an independently compiled version of iOS an an iPhone, equivalent to Lineage or Graphene?
  I'm currently running a fork of Lineage called DivestOS. That's 3 more versions of OS than available for iOS.
  Stop acting like they're the same, because they're not. I use iOS for my work devices, and have since 2010.1 my personal devices are Android, because iOS won't allow me to do things as simple as move files the way I need to.

Surely that means they'll allow more apps onto their own app store with that, right? Right?

Google says that only apps with verified identities will be installable on certified Android devices, which is virtually every Android-based device—if it has Google services on it, it's a certified device.

Any chance you can just remove their shit via adb?

Also, does it affect installs via adb? Obtainium + Shizuku can be a way forward.

I guess this is the last kick I needed to buy a new phone and move away from Google permanently.

I wonder how smartphone manufacturer will react

I wonder if these new developments will affect my android box and more important my future phone which will most likely run /e/ os

For the benefit of those reacting based on the headline and one-sentence summary, yes it's a pain, I agree with the mob that it should be the user's choice what they install, BUT, the headline is badly written, in that it implies that the app itself has to be verified, and also many commenters seem to have also inferred that it means an Apple walled-garden style Play Store lock-in which also isn't the case. (a better headline might have been "sideloading of Android apps from unverified publishers")

You can still publish and run apps from outside of the Play Store, but publishers will need to get a verified key from Google to sign them with. Google don't have any visibility of what the app actually is, they just issue you a key and you do whatever you want with it.

(EDIT: fuck me, don't shoot the messenger, just because you don't like what Google is doing. I even opened by saying I agreed that the user should be able to choose, knowing full well that the sort of person who doesn't read past the headline also would interpret correcting it as a defense of Google... guess I'd have been better off just quietly leaving y'all to get angry over things that didn't actually happen)

i'm sure google will be happy to verify and hand a key out to revanced or aurora store.
Agreed on the headline, but having to ID yourself as a developer to Google even if you're not using the Play Store is fucked too. It's a big step towards a walled garden.
Any developer of piracy or emulation related software will not apply for the registration, because the trail will point to they official identity, opening a flank to legal actions. This will kill piracy in Android.
For now...
- Then they controll who gets a key and if you sign something that's isn't OK with them - revocation
All Google would have to do is check what key an app is using on a user's device and they can invalidate it. Someone made a youtube vanced 2 (not revanced)? Google can easily invalidate it for everyone using this process.
Even if I misunderstand how the key works and it's more of a signature, it would mean that if you try to download an older app then it could fail bc the signature expired and isn't maintained anymore. You also run into the same issue with not being renewed if Google chooses.
My point is it could effectively be a side loading killer, maybe not right away but the point of sideloading is the independence which this takes away

As an iPhone guy, I always thought, what apps am I missing? It was mostly emulators. Then Apple allowed them, and I ask the question again.

Oh yeah, we have Delta, why doesn't Android have anything like that? So, in a nutshell, I can uninstall Delta right now. App gone, games gone, saves gone, it's all gone. No longer have any trace of it on my iPhone. Go to the App Store and download it. Empty library. Got to start over, right? Wrong. Go into Settings, connect Google Drive. It's now downloading my games, my saves, my settings. Everything back where I was. Would be so cool if it were on all the platforms, so a game started on one could be picked up and played on another. Not necessarily Android <==> iOS, but more like phone <==> computer/tablet.

Yeah, so anyway, what can't I get in the Play Store or the App Store that I actually want?

I get it's a slippery slope and future implications. I get that. I'm just not seeing the issue now.

Also, it seems like Google has taken away all the things that would convince you not to get an iPhone. They took your headphone jack (though an Android was the first to do so). They took your microSD card slot. The tech always sucked, no one tried to make it better; past 16 or maybe 32GB the write speeds were too low to be usable. Now they're coming for your sideloading? Honestly what is the argument for staying?

what can't I get in the Play Store or the App Store that I actually want?
For me, it's an independence from Google thing and a privacy thing. I am logged in to the Play Store on my phone, but I try to get whatever I can from F-Droid. On other devices like my TV, tablet and e-reader, I'm not even logged in and use F-Droid and the Aurora Store instead. Not having to rely on Google is great.
Honestly what is the argument for staying?
There are still Android phones with headphone jacks
- Yes, my Android phone (Galaxy S10) has a headphone jack and a microSD card reader and a fingerprint reader. And it's a flaghship. But it's a 2019 flagship. (Still does things better than my iPhone 16 Pro Max, which is Apple's flagship from last year, and still their current flagship model. Most notably, the Android keyboard is better.)
  Do any new flagship Android phones have headphone jacks? Not that I need one. I'm 100% on board with AirPods. Love them. I own headphones but it's a lesser experience. I have some decent (not great) over the ear Sennheisers (they were around $50, so not audiophile range, probably the brand's entry model) and they're good enough, but the AirPods are a better experience in many ways. But anyway, mid-range Android phones have headphone jacks, but they're underpowered compared to flagships, and Android flagships are underpowered next to iPhones of the same year. So while granted, a mid-range 2025 Android likely outperforms my S10 across the board, I have no reason to upgrade what is essentially my backup phone.
- it's an independence from Google thing and a privacy thing. I am logged in to the Play Store on my phone
  Uh.
what can't I get in the Play Store or the App Store that I actually want?
On the Android world, there are various Firefox forks with privacy enhancements. Such an example is IronFox. These apps are not listed on Play Store, and are, instead, distributed through F-Droid.
Besides this, there is a big difference between the policies of Play Store and F-Droid. Play Store takes your compiled blob, runs some security tests, signs it and publishes it. F-Droid, on the other hand, requires that all the source code is public and compiles the app.
This allows the users to be sure that the apps cannot be tampered by their developers. While, on Play Store, devs can easily submit applications that aren't built based on the published source code.
NewPipe
- I have a feeling newpipe is one of those apps that you won't be able to side load...
what can't I get in the Play store that I actually want
Well, for starters, versions of apps without Google play store tracking. Or without GMS/Firebase so the apps aren't constantly being awakened whenever someone else decides.
Or old apps that Google has decided you don't need anymore because they "won't run" on current versions of Android, yet work fine.
Or, any app category that Google doesn't permit you to publish to play, like my system wide ad blockers.
Or apps that aren't malware, since Play store is the single greatest source of malware.
- AdAway isn't in the Play Store? That was my ad blocker back in the day... on, like, Jellybean and KitKat.
  Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if Google has since banned ad blockers. They threaten their business model after all.
Yeah, so anyway, what can't I get in the Play Store or the App Store that I actually want?
When I upgraded my Samsung to a OnePlus13, Samsung's app that manages the tag device flat out had an error message telling me that it could only work on Samsung phones. 5 minutes later I found an open source app allowed me to use the Galaxy tag that I paid for on my new phone. Samsung has some of the best engineers in the world so they were 100% lying or intentionally trying to brick my tag device to either force me to buy their overpriced phones...
And that is just one example. I use tons of open source apps. For almost any useful app you can think of, there is a free open source version. Premium-YouTube? Newpipe is ad-free with all the premium features for free.
I ended up with an iPhone due to their music making ecosystem being quite robust with several third party plugins available and an audio engine that Android is still dreaming of and have not missed anything from Android. Now there really doesn’t seem to be much of a difference other than feeling way more secure on my iPhone. I love that they vet app developers so hard so I don’t end up with some horrid app on my phone
- Not actually true, there are still some scam apps on the App Store. As long as they have recurring subscriptions, Apple doesn't care too much. It's the free apps that are just as good, they will bury, even if they have users.
  As far as music, I agree. I use Apple Music because it's the best streaming service for my needs and they pay artists better than the other big one. But on iOS you also have Marvis Pro and MusicHarbor. I couldn't get that experience on Android. The actual Apple Music app is great on Android, and it has gotten better, but on iOS I still prefer Marvis, which is a frontend to Music.app.