Google: 'Your $1000 phone needs our permission to install apps now'". Android users are screwed

Is Linux viable as a mobile os yet?

I just hope that the Graphene devs continue to support the last supported versions of Android that allow installing apks.

I couldn't be happier with my P7 that has been running Graphene since day one. Zero Google. Zero problems

It's wonderful isn't it?

This is the risk of "trusted computing" architectures. Who is governing the "trusted" part of that.

These cryptographic signatures are not as much of a death knell for Android as some would have you believe. The trick is to get a common code signing cert into your device, that is then used to sign any third party APK you want to run. You can avoid the Google tax this way. I assume that's how most sideloading sites and apps are going to handle this.

The question is, how do you add that certificate? Is it easy and straight forward (with plenty of scary warnings), as a user? Or is it going to be a developer options deal? Or will I need root to add the cert?

I'm not sure what that answer is right now.

I just want to finish this post with a few words about trusted computing models. Plainly: Apple has been doing this for years ... That's why you download basically everything from an app store with Apple. Whether on your Mac OS device, your iPhone, iPad or whatever iDevice.... Whether the devs need to sign it, or the app gets signed when it lands on the store, there's a signature to ensure that the app hasn't been tampered with and that Apple has given the app it's security blessings, that it is safe to run. Microsoft and Google have both been climbing towards the same forever. Apple embedded their root of trust in their own proprietary TPM which has been included with every Mac, and iDevice for a long ass time. Google also has a TPM, the Titan security module, I believe that was introduced around pixel 3? Or 4?... Microsoft made huge waves requiring it for Windows 11, and we all know what that discussion looks like. Apple requires a TPM (which they supply, so nobody noticed), Google has been adding a TPM and TPM functionality to their phones for years, and now Windows is the same. None of this is a bad thing. Trusted computing can eliminate much of the need for antivirus software, among other things. I digress. We've been going this way for a long time. Google is just more or less, doing what Apple has already done, and what Microsoft will very likely do very soon, making it a requirement. Battlefield 6 I think, was one of the first to require trusted computing on Windows and it will, for damned sure, not be the last that does. The only real hurdle here is managing what is trusted. So far, each vendor has kept the keys to their own kingdoms, but this is contrary to computing concepts. Like the Internet, it should be able to be done without needing trust from a specific provider. That's how SSL works, that's how the Internet works, that's how trusted computing should work. The only thing that should be secret is the private signing keys. What Google, Apple, and Microsoft should be doing, is issuing intermediary keys that can sign code signing certs. So trusted institutions that create apps, like... Idk, valve as an example, can create a signature key for steam and sign Steam with it, so the trust goes from MS root to intermediary key for valve, to steam code signing key, and suddenly you have an app that's trusted. Valve can then use their key to sign software on their store that may not have a coffee signing key of it's own. This is just one example based on Windows. And above all of this, the user should be able to import a trusted code signing cert, or an intermediary cert signing cert, to their service as trusted.

Anyways, thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

Thanks for sharing all of that. I got to think a little bit about stuff that normally I would take for granted.
Meanwhile...

This is an android 16 feature, scheduled for sept 2026 "prerelease" and 2027 rollout. I expect/hope some phones will have a setting to disable "the security". If not, there is great opportunty for high end hardware linux first phones, with good android emulation software.

I'll go to iphone if it's not able to be disabled. And I hate iphone.
- Doesn't iPhone already have pretty much the exact restrictions that are coming to Android?

What even is the reason for this? All this is going to accomplish is less Android market share.

Control. Where else are we going to go?
Because of people installing malware.
Its only recently that most Android phone owners even used the internet features, now you need apps just to park your car. There's nothing stopping someone from having you install malware from a pirate QR code someone puts over the proper sticker.
- My guess is that it's because people are using apps to get around Google's revenue generating mechanisms, like apps to get YouTube without ads.

So yeah we'll do a decentralized Linux phone of sorts, if Google is going full 3rd Reich with Android we'll move to a Linux based OS phone.

Simple as that.

Dude. On what hardware? My 1 years old AND 4 years old Samsung phones now lock their bootloader.
Random, fly by night China phones won't have enough documentation or enough consistency in hardware to be a viable rally point for firmware devs, will they?
Don't get me wrong. I will buy exactly that Linux Phone for my next device if it gives me three browsers and enough untracked fundamental functionality like calculators and contact lists.
But I'm genuinely worried there won't be a hardware vendor in the game in my market (the land of Y'allQaeda) to sell me a compatible device that plays nice with the three mobile providers that still exist here.
Who is we? what group of people has the dev funding and time to produce FOSS hardware and software to compete with the average android phone?
- We the people that want a finished product with distribution and a good eco system from day zero. It must be next gen hardware and be priced more than competitively.

This was the main reason I have a spare android phone to install whatever I want on it and just factory reset if there’s an issue. Android / Google is really shooting itself in the foot cause there isn’t a point in owning an android after this imo

Similar story here. I've got apps that I need to use from developers that are not around anymore. My old phone only needs wifi and I've disabled/uninstalled everything else. The phones battery last like 7 days now.

When it comes to the current final frontier, Linux phones, what brands/models would be the best option? Or are you all really recommending iPhones?

You can't sideload in Linux.
"All" you need to do is reflash your phone and reinstall Android/Chromium (soon to be renamed Android). Since you are not a certified supplier, the checking is not activated.
On Chromebooks the setting will be on, since they are used in schools, but since it has a terminal you can remove the block, it won't be simple, probably terminal commands and changing configuration files, but it won't be impossible.
Recommending iPhone because of freedom restrictions feels quite ironic
I'm looking at Fairphone 6. EU based, has an option called /e/os which is basically degoogled Android, and it also has full support for Ubuntu Touch (Linux phone).
Linux handheld with a 4g usb modem, doing calls over the internet. Just an idea, im not doing this, nor do i know how practical it actually is.

If they only cared about thwarting malware they could have just relied on code signing via public certificate authorities, like with binaries on Windows.

Code signing offers slight protection from malware but not as you might think. If a company signs an installer, or executable then it tells you it came from them but not what it does. It could still be malicious, or it could be inadvertently bundled with malware in DLLs or scripts and you wouldn't know. You're just hoping the company has done its due diligence and you trust them to run.
Microsoft does have an antivirus system on top and fingerprints downloads too and applies some kind of trust score that is better if an exe is signed. There is probably no single mitigation that stops malware infection but apply lots of smaller mitigations in in depth and most people will be safe.
The irony is Microsoft still lets people run files ending with .scr way too easily. Much of the malware on torrent websites is a file ending with .scr knowing the OS will hide the extension, e.g. movie.mp4.scr appears as movie.mp4 in File Explorer and people click through and get infected.
- These arguments would apply the same to Google's approach. My argument is that Google appears to have another agenda.
The point is so that most people can't or won't figure it out or get discouraged. So that in time, google's "unwanted" software will be starved of attention and funds to continue being developped and these "weeds" in their garden slowly wither and die

This is about Revanced, isn't it? They failed to kill it via the YouTube backend so now it's down to lock down the os and browsers as much as possible to keep feeding people the juicy ads.

This is bigger than "just" Revanced though. It is about using any open source software that could replace a Google app and losen Google's grip on your data.
- It's time to start self hosting your own services people!
This is about preparing for DMA and the likes in other countries.
- I don't see how the DMA would cause this other than Google preemptively setting themselves up for malicious compliance. The whole point of the DMA seems to be to give users choice not take it away.

I find it very strange how many people in the comments here think the solution is to buy an iPhone. Maybe you are all just rich and can afford to spend $1000+ based on vibes, but considering the Android market still has a massive value advantage I'm not really sure what the point of switching is. This all feels very similar to how some Westerners decided Chinese tech and even the Chinese government were suddenly problem-free just because Americans elected Trump for a second time.

Can you even (easily) install custom apps on iOS? The last thing I remember is it being a huge pain in the butt...
- If you're in the EU there is now at least one alternative app store. iOS hasn't opened up anywhere else in the world AFAIK, so it's still a pain for everyone else. You used to be able to use the AltStore without jailbreaking iOS (maybe you still can), but the process was annoying and didn't feel particularly secure as you had to provide your Apple account details.
I trust China more than this current administration..What are they gonna do? Drone strike me? Oh, wait, that's the US.
- If you are American, you should buy Chinese tech because the Chinese government is more interested in spying on and controlling its own people than you.
  If you are Chinese, you should buy American tech because the American government is more interested in spying on and controlling its own people than you.
- You trust China more? The State-Capitalist Authoritarian regime? They country that developed the spyware known as Wechat, which is currently monitoring most of the overseas Chinese Diaspora? LMFAO. Spoken like a westerner who never stepped foot on mainland China.
  Why are people always being campist lol. Just because you think "your side" is is bad, doesn't mean you should just blindly support the "other side".
The upgrade cycle on iphones is longer than that on android. $1200 flagship samsung phone turns to shit after 2 years. $1100 iphone keeps chugging for 4-5. The android rot is real. Apple is far from perfect but the phones last way longer on average and end up having a lower cost overtime. That is if youre not buying bottom of the barrel budget phones to compare against.
- All of my old phones work fine as the last time they were updated. My 10 year old Sony xperia z3c would be fine except for security updates and it's only 3g, and the storage on it is quite measly. I still use it everyday for playing music, though.
  Most of the speed issues are google bloat. Play services are absolute hogs, and anything that needs them will not work on this phone, but everything that doesn't is perfectly fine. So I'm basically stuck with f-droid apps. Which is fine, because it's a glorified iPod at this point
...Used or refurbished iPhones are relatively cheap and better for the planet.
- Relative to what? Better for the planet than what? I'm not really sure what your point is here, you seem to be implying that a secondhand market for Android phones doesn't exist (note: it does, and Android phones are still much better value secondhand because they lose value so quickly relative to iPhones).

Apple now allows sideloading of apps and Google is trying to get rid of sideloading.

What... the Fuck?

Don't call it sideloading. Did you watch the video?
Apple now allows sideloading of apps
Apple allows as much sideloading as google wants to next near.
Yes, you can install from .iPa files, but you still need to pay 100€ a year to be able to sign the IPA files, otherwise you cant run them. as much as with googles new policy you now need to pay 25€ + your full name to get a signature, to sign the Apks with
- This ⬆️ Apple has set the lowest bar, and google is simply following the trend of “how to keep your App Store the monopoly while conforming to the dma“
Apple now allows sideloading of apps and Google is trying to get rid of sideloading.
afaik only in the EU?
Now we have to get EU on the case 😀
- The EU is no longer an ally in such matters but a bad actor.
Yea but Apple got sued into allowing that

I have LineageOS on my second phone, so the issue doesn't apply to custom ROMs, as the developers assured me. On my main phone, however, I still have the stock ROM because it's a new and expensive phone, and there are no custom ROMs for it yet, especially as it's a MediaTek. If they try to block sideloading, it would be a good time to report it to the European Union.

They also stopped support that allowed for easier development of custom ROMs a couple weeks back. So it's not good news for custom ROMs. Either someone needs to form Android for good, or Linux phones are our next best bet.
Back in 2019 when the leadership changed, they moved to be 100% about advertising, which is why Google started going browser fingerprint tracking. Invasive is the name of the game. Within 6 months of that, they're also locking down their entire ecosystem like Apples does, specifically to squeeze more data out for advertising. This isn't an action taken in a vacuum.
Just get root, and it wouldn't be too difficult to bypass.
I already bypass many of Google's stupid and arbitrary restrictions like their minimal SDK version requirement for side-loading apps and such with Magisk and Xposed modules.
Are you sure it won't apply? As far as I understand, it'll apply to all devices with Google services installed. Which includes most ROMs, as well as non-Google ROMs after you manually install gapps. Is my understanding off?
- On GrapheneOS Play Services is sanboxed, so it cant affect other installation sources. It's just one source of many.
- The requirements apply to all "Google-certified Android devices" which includes:
  Devices with Google Play Store
  Devices with Google Mobile Services (GMS)
  Devices with Play Protect
  All mainstream Android devices from manufacturers including Samsung, Xiaomi, Motorola, OnePlus, and Google Pixel
  Custom ROMs without Google services & uncertified devices are not affected by these restrictions.
  From the linked wiki.
- I don't have Google services, nor do I ever plan to install them. I'm perfectly happy with F-Droid, Aurora Store and NeoStore.

This defeats the entire purpose of me having android

Like I'm just going to switch to an iPhone now. Not because Apple is any better, but because I have more family with them.

They took away our SD cards, they took away our removable batteries, they took away our headphone jacks. Now they're taking away side loading apps, and that's it. I'm done. The death of android.

Removable batteries are coming back, as they become mandatory in the EU in 2027.
Or you can already get one with a Fairphone (which also has SD card slot).
As for the headphone jack, I'm afraid it won't come back. Bluetooth alternatives are far better these days (I got both, so I know from experience), and good adapters (like Apple one) are barely more than $10.
- So what if Bluetooth are "better"?
  Still no reason to not have both.
- No, bluetooth is not better. Bluetooth has latency which is bad for anything that needs realtime audio, like video games or any kind of live performance. It also runs on 2.4 like every other electronic Wireless devices making it prone to interference. And it's yet another device to keep charged all the time.
  USB C is also inferior because you need dongles which increase complexity of your setup, it's more prone to failures. Like audio cutting off every x minutes because connection is just slightly loose or other electronic gremlins. I'm saying this having just had a gig and the MD's phone we relied on for the metronome started acting up during the performance not recognizing the dongle until a reboot.
  Audio jacks were simple, analog, worked perfectly fine and delivered high quality audio. What we have now is overengineered slop that is less reliable and more expensive.
- Bluetooth alternatives aren't better, that's laughable.
  You cant buy beyerdynamics DT-990s with Bluetooth, you cant get Sennheiser HD 490 Pros with Bluetooth, you cant buy Audeze LCD-5s with Bluetooth. I could go on and on but you get the point. Good headphones don't use Bluetooth.
  The nice headphones a lot of us have had for years, well before the headphone jack was removed don't have Bluetooth.
  So when you say they're better 1. You're wrong. And 2. You're missing the point.
  If you prefer Bluetooth, fine, but phones with headphone jacks still have Bluetooth. You're only ok with it because it doesn't effect you and I think that's appalling.
  Imagine phone manufacturers remove the ability to use Bluetooth headphones and I say "that's fine, wired headphones are better anyway". It's not about that, it's about removing your freedom to choose and it should NOT be tolerated
- saying "bluetooth alternatives are far better these days" ignores the uses cases for cable.
- Bluetooth alternatives are far better these days
  Disputable.
  they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separately
  they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
  bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
  transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
- Phones that run Linux and have a headphone jack:
  https://volla.online/en/volla-phone-x23/
  https://furilabs.com/shop/flx1/
  https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/#tech-specs
  https://pine64.org/devices/pinephone/
  2026 will be the year of the Linux phone!
- I never had one of my wired earbuds fall off the platform at the train station and disappear in the gravel, nor did I ever have isues with forgetting to charge them, let alone their case being brolen and not charging at all. And if I want to switch my favourite headphones over from my PC to my phone, I'm really glad my old phone still has a jack.
- Bluetooth is better than...it used to be? Because I promise you there is no earbud on planet earth better than my open back cans.
- I still have a headphone jack. Rare but Androids with them exist if you go out of the mainstream bullshit.
- I have a fp4 and it is VERY annoying to not have jack(I don't wanna use bluetooth because jack works, doesn't need a battery and is low tech), so now I only listen to music on my computer, but I'm planning on making an mp3 player with a raspberry pi pico.
- They won’t become “removable” like in ye old Nokia days. It’s not like you can carry extra batteries and just swap them on the go.
  They just have to be swappable without special tools or specialist equipment.
- Fairphone is too big, i don't want a phablet in my pocket
- The Apple adapter is very good. I used one on my Linux machine that had a finicky built in port. Obviously works great on a phone. If you need one in a car at least MagSafe/qi is available now but not ideal.
  I don’t love the idea of “removable” batteries being mandated if that means like the batteries in an old flip phone. We needed them then because the capacity was so bad and power banks didn’t exist. I would prefer that manufacturers require them to be third party replaceable instead.
Tbf, you can a very cheap android phone for around $100 USD, the cheapest iPhone starts at around ~~$400~~ (edit: Actually I got curious and looked it up, apparantly the iPhone SE is gone and the cheapest new iPhone right now seems to be the 16e which start at $600). Also, Apple developer account cost $99 per year, Google developer account cost $25 one time fee, so the cost is gonna trickle down to the user, sometimes you find free apps on google play and then you look at apple and it cost a few dollars, its most likely due to the recurring costs to maintain a developer account.
Also, Apple doesn't allow torrent clients, You can't use firefox with ublock origin on iOS.
(But then again, these advantages could also go away in a few years... 👀)
- Wait no Firefox on iPhone? Fuck that I'm back in
- Orion sorta lets you use Firefox addons. I use the built in adblocker it has tho.
I just get a flipphone, and try to build some portable computing device from a Raspberry Pi CM, even if they made it 5V, for "industrial purposes" (read: likely some industry people wanted to stop people from building their own portable devices), which is less ideal for battery operation.
Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
I'm glad I stopped expecting logic from you people.
- What'd you mean you people?

If Google is going to lock down my device to the point where I can't install apps without their permission, I might as well dump Android and go straight to Apple. I sacrificed my phone being good for the openness of the platform, but if Google loses that openness, why shouldn't I go with Apple?

Openness isn't just a nice to have. It is essential.
The difference between general purpose computing and gatekept walled garden computing is night and day.
Identifying the devs is not in the "need to know" for Google. Google sells or helps to sell a general purpose open device where it is on us to exploit that device however we will.
Now Google wants to switch to a walled garden, moderated development model.
If Google promises it won't use those dev IDs to moderate development, their promise is only worth the wind it moves and the sound it makes.
- You might say their words are like farts in the wind
- We don’t even need to assume: https://torrentfreak.com/apple-revokes-eu-distribution-rights-for-torrent-client-developer-left-in-the-dark/
- now while at first view, your sentiment is understandable, i actually kinda differ.
  when you buy any product at any store, i believe that there has to be a legal entity behind the store that sells you this product, and the legal entity needs to be identifiable. i.e. if you run a shop and give packages to people, you need to show ID to open up that shop. i believe it is the same for charity organizations which give away packages for free.
  now, why would it be different for apps? apps are software packages, and if they're given away, there should be a legal entity behind it that is identifiable. this isn't to surveil or suppress people, it's just how business has always been done, and for good reason so. businesses need legal representatives to operate, even if it's a charity, because otherwise there's nobody to "talk to" when there's issues, and also imposters would have an easy game.
  that doesn't mean that you can't donate packages away on the streets. just put it in front of your front door and wait until somebody passes by and takes it, or give it directly into the hands of your friends, you don't need to open a business for that. just, if you do it regularly, interacting with people you don't personally know, there is a legal entity that represents that recurring activity, like a business or charity.
  If i understand it correctly, even with the new changes, what can be done is that open software distribution sites like F-Droid can sign the packages instead of the original developers and therefore circumvent the identification of the original developers, and also you can still install unsigned third-party apps if you enter a command on the command line to disable ID certificate checking. it's just an extra step, not a block-all.
Because the cheapest new iPhone is $600 and you can get a cheap new android phone for around $100-$200 and get 6 years of security updates (Galaxy A16 for example)
If a smartphone is no longer a computer where you can install whatever you want, why bother investing so much money on a very locked-down phone? You can use the hundred of dollars you saved to spend on a small portable PC or something to run any software you want.
- Yeah but my banks don't support my small portable PC, nor does my mobile phone provider. If I wanted a small portable PC I'd get a small portable PC. What I want is a smartphone.
- $600 is pocket change for a phone these days. And for that $600 you're getting a flagship phone. You couldn't pay me enough money to put up with a non-flagship. Been there, done that. They're too slow and frustrating, and apps keep closing due to lack of RAM. Never again. I much rather spend $600-800 on a high-end device that's a couple of generations old.
Apple hardware has always been a generation ahead. Even when android/qualcom catches up, next generation is out already. The reason to avoid apple was it being a closed system money grab.
- Apple hardware ahead of Android? I'll have what you're having!
The only answer is money at that point. I don't know how much phones are these days, but aren't iPhones like $1400, but Android is like $900?
I may be wrong though. Last time I bought a phone was 2018, and it was $600. Still using it.
- The regular iPhone and S25 are exactly the same price.
  The S25 ultra is $100 MORE expensive than the iPhone 16 pro max.
  https://www.samsung.com/us/smartphones/galaxy-s25-ultra/buy/galaxy-s25-ultra-256gb-unlocked-sku-sm-s938uzkaxaa/
  https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-16-pro
- You can get Android phones with reasonable specs around $200. No need for the so called "flagships".
- I already tend to buy the expensive flagship models of phones. I buy unlocked and it lasts me ~5+ years, so I get the best phone I can get at the time and make it last, so money isn't as much of an issue if I were to move to an iPhone.

be me
buy new phone, chose android cause I can install anything on it
get free iphone from work
sell iphone on ebay cause I can install anything I want on my android
google doesnt want me to install anything I want

Fuck me. I kept the wrong phone.

So in your world, a completely locked down phone is better than a phone that you can easily open up again by flashing a ROM or replacing Gservices for MicroG with adb + Magisk?
- not every android phone's hardware even allows installing custom ROMs, as far as i'm aware of. and even if the phone technically does allow it, that doesn't mean that any good custom ROMs are even available for it. so the issue is a bit more difficult than that.

How does this affect "second-party" apps (i.e. apps you have created yourself)? Are you still allowed to go to Android studio, make an APK, transfer it to your own phone, and install that app? If no, this spells the death of experimental indie developers on Android.

They might copy from apple. 3 apps with a self signed cert that needs to be renewed every week...
yes. from what I understand, you will get a developer key from Google, and then you will sign your APK with your key.
you'll still be able to sideload apps that have been signed with developer keys. the main point here is that Google is forcing the developer to identify themselves.
- You don't need to sign anything just turn off play protect with 1 adb command:
  
  adb shell settings get global package_verifier_user_consent adb shell settings put global package_verifier_user_consent -1 # disable Play Protect

I bought a Pixel recently and for 2 days I tried to make it work. 2 whole days of fumbling pain! And I felt fucking horrible. Almost nothing is customizable and everything coated in a thick layer of AI. Every google app has dark patterns. Don't like it? Well too bad, apps like goog photos keep on asking if you want to upload your life with a recurring popup that tries to trick you. Don't want Google Search Bar? Well... you don't get to say no bitch, don't make me hurt you. It is not a healthy relationship.

So. I just took the plunge and flashed GrapheneOS. Graphene will take a bit of work getting replacements for some of my needed apps like mail and map. But there are lots of neat options and I'm having fun with it. Problem fixed.

I used the graphene web install. I booted up my Pi 4B+ and used gnome-disks to flash a MicroSD with Ubuntu 24.10 then installed the two packages in the web install instructions then I got Brave (I went to the Brave homepage and they have some curl option to download. I needed to install curl, did that then got Brave installed. Once brave is installed you have to disable browser fingerprinting memory reduction and disable the "brave shield" (the little shield near the address bar) for the web installer GrapheneOS page. (It's a fresh install, on a Pi, and I know the site, no real risk)

After this you can just press the big buttons on the page and follow the instructions on the page.

There are many ways to do this. They have lists of compatible browsers and operating systems. I picked (eww) Ubuntu and (eww) Brave because they seemed easiest on the list and I did not virtualize or use containers in any way cause it messes up the webUSB magic the website uses. I like to play it safe as possible when firmware is involved so I didnt speed up the instructions. And also when you buy a Pixel, big thing! Turn on dev tools and toggle your oem bootloader setting off and on again. If it can't do that you need to return the phone because it's locked down by carrier.

Well... I hope my long sleep deprived ramblings help someone else break their chains. Read a bunch about it before starting! Good Luck!

I mean, good on you to go for Graphene, but honestly a lot of stuff you describe is solved with a custom launcher. Search bar and customizability for example. I use KISS launcher on my private phone (Pixel 7) and on my work phone (Pixel 9), no issues with either of these topics.
The one thing I wholeheartedly agree with though is the cancer that is Google Photos and the peddling of backing up stuff.
- GrapheneOS comes enirely Google free out of the box, including telemetry. It is also a reasonably secure mobile OS. You don't get all that by just changing the launcher.
Good on you for using grapheneos! But you should always install the software you want anyway. You don't need google photos. You can install a different launcher etc. Don't become complacent and go with the setting out of the box. That's the reason tech turned into shit. Consumers don't care for it anymore.
I must admit however, that the launcher market has turned to shit though. There used to be so many more cool options to choose from.
- Yup, Thanks, I plan too. I installed Nova and then cut its network permissions. It's something for now.

Can you at least put a custom ROM on to disable this?

The issue is that Android used to be open source but they're moving to closed source under the guise of security as well which will make it difficult/impossible to update the rom
Afaik, yes

Joke's on them, my phone only cost $300

Same here, got a recent (so not completely new) Xiaomi 13T Pro. Very little crap on it and it has impressive specs like 16GB RAM, 1TB storage and a very good Leica camera.
I'd love putting Linux on it one day, the specs are almost as good as my main PC lol.

I think I am just done with the whole concept of the convenient prepackaged tech product, and especially staying "connected" with them.

For example, I stopped wearing a smart watch this summer and it's been a positive. I was the type to wear it 23 hours a day and track my sleep with it and everything. It turns out that not instantly seeing every notification or knowing the exact minute of the day are not a big deal, sans are even good for me.

Part of what I've also done is use my phone a lot less and my linux desktop a lot more. I use it as a mobile communication device and not my computer for everything. I guess the next time I need to replace it I'll either get an iphone since everybody in my family has one, or I'll see where these wonderful Linux phone projects end up.

I'm wearing my smartwatch as a wristwatch. All notifications are off, but I see the temperature, UV index, step and calorie counters, which is nice. And if I ever want to review my sleep data, pulse, sPO2 saturation and location history, I got it available just in case. And for the very rare case that my phone is charging and I want to access messages from another room, I can do that manually.
- In all fairness to smart watches, mine is what turned me on to regularly checking the UV index. That's an important thing for all people, but especially me because I have an increased skin cancer risk due to unrelated medical stuff. And it was extra-extra important this year because I have done a ton of good work outside this summer.
  And to be more specific about my watch situation, there's more going on than just avoiding notifications. I have been minimizing the amount of stuff I keep on my person in general, right down to finally getting my wedding ring tattooed on this year. There are various reasons ranging from abstract introspective life improvement stuff to the practical where that outside work I mentioned was constant and pretty rough on anything on my hands/arms.
  So even if I wore a nice mechanical watch, I'd probably still be going with the double bare wrists right now.

Their arguments are kind of lame. To install APKs from outside the store is already an involved process that generally makes it harder for the uninformed to sideload. Make sideloading a bit harder, but possible. My xiaomi makes me wait and read warnings before installing APKs, for example.

Side loading will still be possible but the apps themselves will need to be signed by the developer through Google, so Google ultimately still controls what can be installed. Maybe someone will crack it.
- [Installing software] will still be possible but the apps themselves will need to be signed by the developer through Google, so Google ultimately still controls what can be installed. Maybe someone will crack it.
  Fixed that for you :-)
- It's a great way to workaround them being forced to open the ecosystem a little and allowing alternative stores and that stuff. It only took more than a decade, they obviously not happy about it, so gotta screw people in another way.
But this process impacts other stores, too, like FDroid.
"Uugfhh, but the users don't read the warnings!! They just click yes until it works!!"
And that's my problem because???? For fucks sake

I know it's not really ready for it yet, but I guess I'm gonna be looking into a Linux phone before I thought I would.

Same, though I think this will be the push the community needs to really launch a good Linux phone. It'll suck for awhile, but I'm looking forward to debating phone distros with all of you.
- Sorry it took so long to reply, I was waiting for Gentoo to finish compiling on my phone.
- I'm using arch mobile btw
- I use Debian as my daily driver and am disappointed to see that the best-supported devices under Mobian within my budget are the Pinephone (which has shockingly low specs) or the Pinephone Pro (recently discontinued, no longer sold. Also had poor specs).
  I was toying with was getting an SBC with an LTE/5G hat & 7in touch screen, plugging it into a portable battery, and 3d printing a case for it.
  Fairphone with PostMarketOS seems more practical.
My main problem with linux phones is that many apps only exist only for android or ios.
Sure some apps are basically a website that you can acess by web browser but many apps cant be replaced able (banking, tickets, public transport, games)
- My main problem with the current crop of Linux phones is, or at least it's my impression - is that they still struggle with the basic phone part. As in network connectivity (at least in the US), making and receiving calls, SMS & MMS, and VoLTE support. If there's a Linux phone where that stuff is solid and works, I'd buy one. I don't really care about the whole app ecosystem - I barely have any apps on my Android phone now.
- Waydroid works really well to run Android apps on mobile Linux, even for games. Doesn't help for banking apps though as they'll usually lock you out due to not passing Google safety checks.
- Most Android apps can be run under a mini-VM in the Linux systems I've tried - but some apps won't function well that way (banking, NFC tickets, etc)
- Wait, Linux phones are a thing? How do they get the market share to compete with the big tech?
- I think I'd be willing to let go of the handful of things that are exclusive, given that I could probably do more with a proper Linux system. It's the basic phone functionality (as others have mentioned) that keeps me from switching.
- I thought so too, but over the years I have migrated so much of my life away from apps in order to see if it's possible and apart from games I find that with a browser and an email client I don't really need apps. Still use apps though, they are way more convenient.
  Banking is tedious without apps, but works with browser and an MFA-dongle in my country.

I readily await the visibility and interest this will give mobile linux development.

Nearly 100% of the development for handheld Linux is Steam OS / Steam Deck. If Valve moves to ARM at some point then you might see useful improvements that benefit the mobile use case.
- the collaborative world works off of demand. Pocket laptops and linux phones have been a nice distraction for long enough. They may soon become more of a saving grace.
  I'm not saying you'll be able to run Spyware Simulator 2000 on PostmarketOS. I'm more saying that any secondary device you use for foss software will be more focused upon as an actual decent alternative for getting work done without being spied on by capitalist nazis.
  These devices can run web browsers. That's 80% of your needs already taken care of and we haven't even left Firefox.
  CARRY TWO PHONES??!!
  What will the neighbors think!?
- Can a steam deck be turned into a phone?
My shitty country cant use those anyway.
- What is blocking it? I haven't done much research yet but was hoping to find a new OS if this goes through. Wouldn't it be the same as putting a sim card into a tablet/laptop? Or is there something specific to your country that stands out?

Will this kill FDroid ? I imagine yes since you have to install it from a download.

My suspicion is that the main purpose of Googles decision is to stop F-Droid and Aurora Store from working.
- They don’t care about those.
  They want revanced and other ad circumvention tools out.
  They ARE an ad company, you know?
I haven't watched the video --- I would generally rather have text form content --- but if Rossman is announcing the same thing that I just read about elsewhere, it's not a removal of sideloading. It requires that a developer register and provide Google with personal information for Google to let them create packages. Assuming that Google is willing to let the F-Droid developers register an account (which I assume they have) and sign the F-Droid package, it should not restrict installation of the F-Droid package.
However, you wouldn't be able to use F-Droid to install any packages that didn't conform to Google's new requirements.
I doubt that the restriction is at the store app level, but at the package installation level. That is, I would expect that the F-Droid or Google's store app or whatever says "install this package" and the OS refuses.
https://developer.android.com/developer-verification
Starting in September 2026, Android will require all apps to be registered by verified developers in order to be installed on certified Android devices.
Step 1
Verify your identity
You will need to provide and verify your personal details, like your legal name, address, email address, and phone number.
If you're registering as an organization, you'll also need to provide a D-U-N-S number and verify your organization's website.
You may also need to upload official government ID.
Step 2
Register your apps
You'll need to prove you own your apps by providing your app package name and app signing keys.
And especially any youtube app that blocks ads. OF COURSE Google will never allow Newpipe, Revanced, FreeTube and so on to be installed on Android phones ever again.
- None of those have worked for me on Android since a couple of months.
  Firefox with uBlock Origin is the last bastion, and don't think that's not on their radar.
- I have no idea if this shit is coming to android tv, but i turned updates off just in case as I use SmartTube Next on it to watch ad free youtube. Ugh. Fuck google.
You can use F-Droid and other install sources on alternative ROMs.

Something kind of concerning I just found - there's an option for "limited distribution" which is "Intended for 'students, hobbyists, and other personal use.'" One of the differences is the following:

Has "capped number of apps and installs"(specific limits not disclosed)

Doesn't this imply there's going to be global tracking of what apps people are installing even through sideloading or APKs? I can't think of any other way to enforce this. They would have to know how many times people installed an app even when its not through any kind of app store or even from the internet at all.

I'm pretty sure that was implemented a while ago. My install of VLC from F-Droid started showing up in Play Store's update list.
It couldn't update since the signature didn't match, but Google knew about it and included it anyway.
- That has just always been the case as long as the app in both stores uses the same package string. (Like orgblitzortungandroidapp or org.videolan.vlc)
- Could be, but that could also just be done locally. Like your phone checking the apps you have installed and seeing if the same ones are on the play store. Having an install limit for an app - assuming that means that the app can only be installed some total number of times globally (a local install limit wouldn't make any sense I think) - necessarily implies that when you install an app through an APK, it has to tell Google that you installed that app so it can track how many people have installed it and not approve installation of the app if it's over whatever the limit is.
- I think that's how it works when you have apps with the same name from different app stores, I noticed it with a different app like two years ago.
- That's interesting. I was just checking to see if Cromite showed up there but couldn't find it, is there a menu you found yours under outside the update tab? If something as simple as a browser I use is going to be blocked from installs/monitored I can't see why I'd stay in this ecosystem.
They provide the OS, what makes you think that kind of tracking isn't already happening?
App stores provide the apks but then you'll use your phone's installer to actually, well, install the apks.
- There are some alternatives to the default apk installers
Presumably that will work like test flight does where you can only install the app through an invite system

You're pissed about it? Visit here: https://opencollective.com/postmarketOS

IMHO that's our best shot. Totally Google free, mainstream Linux kernel.

That’s not how you spell UBports.
I do support the PostmarketOS project, but it has much further to go before it’s friendly enough for regular people. Short of Valve releasing a Steam phone, I think UBports is better positioned to bring genuine linux to mobile.
- No one here is talking about regular people. Regular people will keep using stock Android.
  UBports still relies on Android kernel and services. Custom ROMs are such a small part of the Android ecosystem that I didn't think Google will go after them yet they did. Can we be sure in a couple of years they will not try to destroy Android based distros like UBports?
  I also don't really like the entire idea behind UBports. It's so heavily modified you can't even easily run native Linux apps so you're limited to Ubuntu Touch apps. As a developer I'm not really interested in learning completely new framework that supports only one platform. We have solutions to create cross platform Linux-Android apps so I can move my apps from Android phone to PostmarketOS without any work, they already work there.
  So I'm supporting PostmarketOS and I really hope it will be usable when my Pixel phone dies. If not I will switch to something Halium based. What else is there to do?
- Yeah I agree. I've used PMOS as well as Lineage and Graphene. The latter was the best experience and PMOS was the one that needed the most work, at least to reach any sort of side adoption.
  I'm actually looking at something running SailfishOS as my potential happy mid-point, but currently the Jolla phone - which would be my preferred device for this - doesn't seem to shop outside Europe yet.
- Can you install generic apks on UBports, or only precompiled .deb packages and other native Linux applications?
- Is 20.04 the latest release?
Don't worry as the current OEMs continue to lock down bootloaders and lock required drivers behind copyright and other restrictive licensing schemes they will ensure nice things like PostmarketOS at best remain fringe and never able to replace modern phones for daily usage.
- Most of they will but hopefully we will still have projects like PinePhone or Fairphone that will support it.
Does this also work with android tablets? Or is there a separate os for those?
- Here you can see current state: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices
  In theory it will just be another Linux able to run on everything Linux supports + Android hardware. Honestly I don't know if it will ever run on common modern phones but it should at least be possible to run it on more "open" phones like Fairphone or PinePhone.

Does this mean the end for YouTube Revanced on Android?

not necessarily. the developer needs to sign the APK with a key issued by Google. the main issue here is that developers will be forced to identify themselves.
- So the users will have to get their own key and give it to the patcher/manager?

Sideloading being so easy on iphones and now becoming very difficult on android. Wow

Yeah but don't you have to boot up your PC and connect your phone to iTunes once a week to re-enable developer mode to be able to sideload? Is there a more permanent method that I'm unaware of?
- No i dont have to connect my phone to a pc. It refreshes from the phone and i sideload from my phone
- Jesus, how the heck is this called "sideloading is so easy on an iPhone"?
  That's a nightmare procedure, and completely unnecessary.
  Obviously Apple makes sideloading as hard as possible.
Sideloading being so easy on iphones
Is it easy? Apple has only made that change in the EU AFAIK, it's still a closed system all around the world.
- Look up sidestore and Live Container. I have many apps sideloaded without jailbreaking
They are converging to become the same thing.
Its not any better on iOS, fyi, they too require Apple's final approval.
- They don’t require apples approval at all not sure if youre talking about the EU. Im talking about sideloading with sidestore and live container

$1000 USD for a mobile phone...no thanks.

It used to be a pocket computer, now its just a mini-prison-cell.
If anyone is using currently using a flagship phone, when your phone dies and you need a replacement: consider just getting a cheap $100 android phone then spend the rest of the money you would've spent on a flagship on a portable PC instead
- This is the route I went years ago. Not only do i not feel like lugging around an obnoxiously long buttonless 1kg remote control, within two months the display will be shattered because I sneezed, and I will have to buy a new one because replacing the screen costs as much as a new phone.
  I know they do that shit by design. Why would the back side of the phone need to be made of fucking glass? It's literally the only reason I ever buy new phones, the screen is the only thing that ever breaks, and they never survive long enough to be "too old" to use.

fuck google tbh

(non-Android) Linux phones aren't really ready for daily driving even for relatively advanced users - but it looks like we're gonna have to deal with it anyhow

Yes, in a way it's like linux more than a decade ago. Kinda fun tbh, looking forward to giving it a try.
- More like linux in the 90s
Not sure I actually want a linux phone. Not sure I want a smart phone at all anymore.
I think digital convergence probably went as far as it needed then kept going. Not sure how we went from nokia candybars and palm pilots to having a an always on camera, microphone, location and wifi sensor controlled by foreign advertising companies in our pockets but I think I am over it.
- from nokia candybars and palm pilots to having a an always on camera, microphone, location and wifi sensor controlled by foreign advertising companies
  We could build things with all that tech outside of those group's control. That's what brought you here to the Fediverse isn't it?
  For example I like Smart Home stuff. I've got dozens of devices I can control through my phone or automations etc around my house. My lights even. But I only like it because I control it thanks to FOSS stuff like Home Assistant. It's local. Not reliant on external servers and works exactly how I like. If you bought cheap-o wifi gadgets that all rely on 20 different apps you'd have a really shitty experience and all your data harvested and your lights not turning on because whatever company shut down.
  We can take control of phone tech in a similar way. Unfortunately I doubt we will as a whole but I think it may be possible for the more technically minded to carve out a small niche in the hellscape.
SailfishOS os daily drivable IMO.

Its like Microsoft and Google are teaming up to drive me closer to Linux.

Yes, learn the truth and be enlightened. Both Microsoft and Google have been secretly scheming for a while now, with the sole intent to get girthero closer to Linux
Windows 12 phones are going to come. Microsoft will have their own RISC chips to run mobile platforms. Their relationship with Intel has limited them too much while the rest of the Tech giants grew too powerful with their own branded chips and devices.

I'll just buy and use decade old phones with unlocked bootloader till I can. There's barely any innovation in phones these days and I'm sure someone will come to fill the gap Android left (hopefully Linux). I'm still using my 5 year old phone degoogled with custom a16 and still going strong. I also have a backup pixel 6 in case the current one breaks. I can easily wait 10-15 years.

Banking Apps in my country doesn't even install on Android version of previous 2 version, because "security" reasons...not because of their incompetence to make their app more secure. I had to buy new phone to use my own money.
- I just changed banks, fuck those apps
- This do not depends on bank incompetence, it depends from the regulations the banks need to follow.
  And for the same reason you cannot install on a rooted phone (or at least, you should not be able to do it)

So ,i install graphene OS on a pixel phone ,problem solved

Well the assumption is that the Graphene team will be able to maintain non-store app installs. There's recent news that Google is no longer providing update packages the way they used to which will make it harder on Graphene to update stuff too.
We can't assume that Google's next update will not functionally block the ability for GrapheneOS as well.
- I believe Google plans to use Google Play Services to block side loaded apps. By default, GrapheneOS does not come with Google Play Services installed. I am not sure how things would work if the sandboxes version of Google Play Services that GrapheneOS provides is installed.
  The issue about maintaining/updating GrapheneOS is a separate issue from side loading apps. That was due to Google shifting the development of Android to a closed source model and only open sourcing the final code. This limits the Grapheme team's ability to anticipate changes and make any required adjustments until after the release of Android.
- The Graphene OS team have said that they are going to continue, have received the pixel 10 phones they ordered and have put out a statement regarding this issue.
Sure, but the problem is the ecosystem of alternatives stores effectively collapsing or falling under Google's control. That will affect everybody who uses them, whether on GrapheneOS, LineageOS or certified devices.
The delictable irony that if you don't want to use their os, you need to use their phone
- Yep ,thats is the way
Only a matter of time before Google will shut that down too.
- GrapheneOS is one of the last bastions of freedom remaining. I don't know what we'll do if that happens.
The problem is not solved if open source Android apps get abandoned because the vast majority of users can't use them anymore.
Everywhere I talk about some corporation removing features you bought and paid for, someone says that "they personally would never used that feature", or "serves them right for buying from that company".
In other words, go fuck yourself.
Yes, throw more money towards the company doing this, sounds solid
Just give google more money, no thanks. Fairphone with lineage OS is a better option in my opinion.
- Fairphone is contributing directly to the linux kernel so they have my vote!
- Easy. Refurbed phone. Google didn't get a penny.
what will most people do, who don't have a google pixel?
- lol the pinned comment on this video is
  “Ok, so what do i switch to now? I refuse apple. So what do i have to chose from?”,
  and Louis’ reply is “nothing”.
- Google pixel 8 pro is now 559 euro in holland
Pixel phones cost several times what my phone costed.
Pixels are inferior to even the cheapest android phones out there. I have a two year old Motorola stylus that cost $100 and battery life is still over two days and I've dropped it a million times. Evey pixel I've owned had major issues with screen or battery life not worth the price when google can't handle making reliable hardware. Plus I have a headphone Jack.
- I mean everyone has anecdotal evidence to "prove" their point... I have a Pixel 7a that still lasts 2 days and I've dropped it a million times and the screen hasn't cracked. It's also 2+ years old.
- pixels battery life is lacking, but they sacrificed that for an AI-spy ware machine anyways.
https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa
https://commerce.jolla.com/products/jolla-community-phone
- Purism scams their customers left, right, and center and have for effectively their entire existence. They should not be trusted, and their phone specs are basically from 2013 sold for $800.
  Scam (Louis Rossmann)
  Scam
  Scammy
  Scam
  These specs for $800
  So even if you're idealistic enough to pay $800 for a phone that'd be in a landfill if it didn't have hardware privacy features, Purism will take that trust you have in them and screw you over – delay you for as long as they need to/can/want with no recourse for a refund outside of maybe the courts. After which you hope you either get a functioning product or get good luck with a disorganized, opaque, scumfuck company like that.
- Does it...work yet? Last I heard phone calls were dodgy...

My problem with this is when I now don't have freedom from surveillance in my country because I mainly use F-Droid to install my privacy conscious apps.

just installed lineageos with root because of this, so thanks Google i guess

how is it so far?
- very seamless, official lineage builds work amazing.
  only hiccups ive had are play integrity, i really didnt want to root but i have to in order to hide authy and similar apps that throw a fit. ended up installing magisk and im all green for now
  other issue is losing sony sidesense, since i have an Xperia 5 III and it's 21:9, being able to pull down the notification drawer without reaching all the way up there was great. ill live with the alternatives that come with android for now though until i find out what is a real replacement

TFW more than half of my phone's applications is getting thanos snapped and it's also carrier-locked

real question, you can't install another os if you have a carrier phone? how come? just asking bc i have one and want to switch to another os
- Carriers usually make it more difficult to unlock the bootloader on their versioned phones. Iirc with some you have to submit a form or something similar to the carrier to be able to unlock it

This should read that google is screwed, as android users flock to alternative phones. But no, so many would rather just keep on bending the knee to daddy data scrap.

Android users will have no idea it's happening because only a tiny minority even knows what sideloading is. I don't think I have done it in my last 3 phones, so maybe a decade or so. It's definitely not enough of a reason even for someone like me to switch, let alone an average user.
- Well, I use Obtainium to install all my FOSS apps directly from the repository.
  I also built a game for kids (available publicly) and then made a plugin just for my kid which includes some licensed characters, for obvious reasons I can't put that onto the Play Store, so apk installation it is.
- I get what you're saying and you're definitely right. I don't side load things all that much but the times I have was because there was no other viable way to get what I needed and it worked amazingly well (not to mention testing something before it's available on the app store).
  It's one of those things like a fire extinguisher that you might not need but you are very grateful it's there just in case you ever do.
What are those alternatives? I can't think of any that are ready for prime time.

Soon privacy minded folks will have a burner phone for calls and sms (I need those for work) and carry some sort of phablet for smartphone functionality (gotta have my navigation app, for sure)

What OS will that tablet be running?
- Whatever you choose.
- hopefully some flavor of linux
  edit: but I'd take MacOS or Windows over either iOS or Android at this point. I suppose a toughbook mounted in my truck would do the job also. Cops rotate those out on a fairly regular basis.

This is redicolous

if this happens my next phone either will be a linux phone (if I can find a dependable one with banking apps allowed) or iOS out of spite

Lol, that's like saying "my country became a dictatorship, so I'm gonna support another country's dictator out of spite"
- I'll drink water from the toilet 'cos the wine is bad!
- Not really, it is more like saying "I am going to move to another dictatorship". In both cases, lose enough of your "members" and your organisation becomes significantly weaker.
  Also iPhone has been quite constant about its motivations and priorities quite from the start (even if did not announce it publicly lol). Android however was a product of a company who started its life with the motto "don't be evil" and is now trying to monopolize the shit out of everything, including its users free time. I am not even sure this can even be classified as a lesser of two evils scenario anymore.
Flip phone or free/very cheap phone. Certainly won't spend any real amount of money on android. Like £15 or so second hand them yeah maybe
iOS
IOS already does this.
- Yeah but he's doing it out of spite since the whole point of Android is freedom to do what you want. Take that away... Might as well go apple.
Take a look at SailfishOS, it's good.

Does anyone know anything about Furi Labs phones? I saw a comment about them on another post about Android alternatives https://midwest.social/comment/19568664

HongKong-based like Pine64, linux-based OS.

It really should be a 3 level setting, disallow/allow & check/allow. Where the latter option is available but users are strongly advised to only select it if they are sure. Because I would not be surprised if a lot of sideloaded content comes from warez sites and is infested with malware so allowing & checking is still preferable and protects people to some extent.

It's time the community open source movement starting gaining a lot more traction on mobile. We need better hardware support and standards for a streamlined non-Google/Apple/MS platform. Something not beholden to any single company or country

does this control happen with a specific android version release? what number? Can I get a new phone with that version and sideload an alternative OS/ROM?

You can research a phone you like and check if it has an unlockable bootloader, root it, and install something like LineageOS on it. It's fairly straight-forward, not super technically demanding, but it does require some tinkering and time setting up.
xdaforums.com is where the rooting kids hang out, post guides for specific models, upload images et c, you can probably do it in an afternoon with GPT.
The issue is that some apps, notably banking and official type apps, usually don't work as they rely on google services for operation. I solve it by having a cheap secondary phone that I only use for that stuff.
Oh, I almost forgot: FUCK YOU GOOGLE

i heard they were softlocking the OP soon in the newer models, but hopefully they dont compeltely lock it down.

iPhone user: “Well well well, how the turntables.”

Just you wait until EU representatives start licking American/Trump buttholes and reverse every sanction or law imposed on US tech.
- Please Europeans, please stop buying American goods, using American social media, and ffs do not come here. If there is no profit to be made, they'll stop bothering you.

With this shift and other control based decisions Google has been making, does Apple devices start to make more sense? Neither platform offers true control over there device you "own", but Apple at the very least isn't a marketing company.

I can't believe a company hasn't swooped in and eaten Apple and Google's lunch.

You need a certain critical mass to enter this market, since you need to be able to get an army of Foxconn slaves to produce the handsets.
No company is going to be and to swoop in and eat those two's lunches.
- Hell, even the juggernauts of Microsoft and Amazon tried, and they got crushed out of the market.
- You also need every company to develop for a third mobile platform, where two different ones are already a big ask.
  Easy solution would be to run existing apps on Linux, probably would be Android.
  Another solution would we move to PWAs to have apps in the browser.
  Both these things already happened on desktop Linux with Windows games using Proton and most proprietary desktop apps switching to Electron.
- At this point, I just need a community device. And I’ll gladly pay monthly for an OS that has the basics with a web browser and full privacy.
Apple isn't a marketing company? Wow, if anything I would say that singularly defines what has made them successful. They put out solidly mid hardware, but are the best marketers in tech and always were.
- "Not a marketing company" as in their business model is not centred around shoving ads in your face for money is how I read it.
- The hardware is absolutely not mid. It is inflexible. Compare the entry level MacBook Air to any comparable Windows laptop and you’ll be spending much more to get close to the same performance/battery/build quality. The thing that makes them successful is creating a unified ecosystem that is hard to leave. People don’t pick Apple because they are a bunch of idiot clones who are enamored with TV ads.
- They aren't a marketing company; they're a tech company that knows how to market. Hate them all you want, and I do, but let's be honest. Also, the M series SoCs are technological amazing. They are efficient and powerful whereas in the standard PC world Intel is just pushing more electricity through their chips to try and keep up with IPC and AMD isn't far behind, plus ARM outside of Apple just isn't nearly the same.
- Until a few months ago I was all-in the Apple ecosystem. iPhone, iPad, Mac, Apple TV. Seeing them launch things like Universal Control was amazing.
  Then I jumped out, got a Pixel, put Graphene on it, and started messing with Linux.
  ... Only to discover that Universal Control is essentially just Input Leap, which can trace its history back to 2001 and the launch of Synergy.
  Apple are absolutely a marketing company. Don't get me wrong, they add some much-needed polish, but they essentially just rejig existing tech and lock it down so it only works on their devices sold in the last few years.
Android is all of the downsides of Apple now with none of the upsides. I prefer the company selling a walled garden over the one selling my internet activity.

Can someone explain how this affects graphene os users?

Someday you will have to buy a new phone.
I use GrapheneOS on a Pixel tablet without any Google Play so that doesn't affect me. On my Pixel phone Google Play is sandboxed. I expect however that Google will disable bootloader unlocking on future Pixel hardware.

Is there other alternatives to Apple and Google phones? If you can pay for shipping a and 2 phones compared to a Google or Apple phone then why not use other manufacturers?

Is there other alternatives to Apple and Google phones?
There are phones that run on other platforms, but the app library and hardware isn't competitive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open-source_mobile_phones
You could also move most of what you do to a tablet or laptop if you're willing to carry that, and just use the phone as an Internet access device and for phone calls.
EDIT: Or use a cell modem for data and SIP service for phone service and texts, though then you need to have a device that you'll keep on if you want to get incoming calls when they come in. Cell phones are pretty optimized for low idle power usage.

What about Android developers they will need to work with unsigned or self signed apps? Can't I just sign up as a developer?

Annual rentseeking incoming, 3.2.1...

so is this why my phone updated and then took seven hours to connect to the network the other day?

"No" is what I would prefer to say but for some reason "that is extremely unlikely" hits the point home harder.

As a user I don't have a problem with this , as long it's used ethically. The question is if Google can act ethically.

As a user, you should be upset that a private company is controlling how you are allowed to use your device that you paid for with your money.
This would be like if Microsoft decided you could only run Microsoft-approved code on a computer you purchased, in some cases with a locked bootloader so you can't even change your OS.
Also, Google is (imho) already operating unethically when it comes to the app store (See Google v. Epic). I don't care about Fortnite, but Google really shouldn't be able to take a cut of random services just because it's running on Android.
- Doesn't upset me, why? Because it's not about controlling what app I install, but who wrote the app I might install. If my understanding is not correct of this change , I'm happy to be shown I'm wrong.
Just think of it: you are the author of the ICE tracker app. You want to release the app as anonymously as possible, right? Well, not with this move in place. You will need to upload your govt. Id to their website. If the pigs come knocking, you bet your ass GOOG will gladly hand it over to them and off you go to Florida.
Google removed their motto "don't be evil". I think that alone will answer your question.
You don't have a problem with Google dictating what you can and cannot do on your own phone? Seriously?
What's the benefit of that?
- I guess I was brought up believing that if you do nothing wrong, theres no point hiding your identity.
  I'm fine knowing the person who wrote the code of the app that I am about to install has had courage to identify themselves.
"I don't mind living under a dictatorship as long as it's just the people I don't care about getting murdered."