Should Lemmy.ca defederate from Maga Place?
Should Lemmy.ca defederate from Maga Place?
241 comments
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Yes
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Duh. Remember that time where a MAGA person listened to facts and logic, not emotion? Yeah, me neither...
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I thought it was a parody instance.
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It will be after we overflow it with tgirl accounts
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Ban also Charlie kirk memorial community.
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I visited the instance and it did not seem at all MAGA friendly.
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It's got like 5 users... Unless they're actively causing trouble i would be in favour of not defederating.
That said, i'm not a .ca user so it doesn't really matter to me
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Tolerance of the intolerant is unacceptable, no matter how few there may be.
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Good thing we're all tolerant, and all of our political opposition isnt! We really dodged a bullet there...
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The right wing movement continues to grow. you can assist them in locking themselves away in their bubbles where their ideology will continue to grow and fester or you can help address the problem and start winning hearts and minds.
There is no other way out of this mess
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Yeah but thats the perfect time imo. Better to do it now while there is no value than if it gets big and ca users have to abandon a community they may have been participating in (not every community is necessarily related to the main theme of the instance)
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Yep. No question. Hate speech is not free speech.
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It's against lemmy.ca rules #1 and #2
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I think everyone should. that's the whole point of having a decentralized federation system: different people on different instances can decide what's to Nazi for them to tolerate. Not like Xitter where one dude decides what's the acceptable level of Nazi everyone should see every day.
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I don't think there's any value associating with racists, sexists, homophobes, transphobes, or traitors.
So, yes.
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Do it before it's too late.
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Should Lemmy.ca defederate from a Nazi instance? Yes. Let's not have their fascist propaganda leak into our instances.
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As both a Canadian and an American, yes please. Nothing good comes out of MAGA.
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Same situation, same answer. Fascists and nazis must be deplatformed. Let them have their echo chamber all to themselves. Defederate.
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How . . .
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Dual Citizenship maybe?
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Kill it before it lays eggs..!
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No censorship? Does that mean the rest of us can go in there and shit on their terrible opinions?
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Fuck them. Lemmy is Canadian.
MAGA, the people who want to make Canada their 51st state, can fuck right off.
However, I do find it funny these "American patriots" feel they need to use Canadian servers to exercise their free speech. Their Orange god is completely against free speech. They should embrace that instead.Edit: Sorry. I misunderstood how this maga place this was hosted when I made the comment. I thought it was on lemmy.ca but I see now how it's hosted and shared.
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However, I do find it funny these "American patriots" feel they need to use Canadian servers to exercise their free speech.
Canadian servers? what do you mean? fedidb does not show server location to me
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You're correct.
The A record for the domain name
maga.placeresolves to216.144.226.200, which is under the 216.144.226.0/24 prefix of AS36352 (HostPapa). The prefix being used is registered tomadgenius.com, which is a hosting provider registered in the United States. Curiously, that provider even has their own ASN (AS55154) that's not being used here.It's also a shared IP address. The address itself resolves to
suportefiscal.aptosclinica.com.br.when you perform a reverse lookup.As for the domain name itself, a quick whois lookup points to Namecheap. The MX records corroborate this, pointing to
registrar-servers.com.In any case, the server itself is hosted in Virginia. The hosting provider used is an American company either owned by or reselling services from a Canadian company.
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This is a 1-day-old account and they also said "Lemmy is Canadian", so I'm presuming that they think that defederation means to remove this like it were a community.
Although even so they aren't wrong: federation with Lemmy.ca means to help spread their messages using Canadian servers:-).
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However, I do find it funny these "American patriots" feel they need to use Canadian servers to exercise their free speech.
No, actually they have their own server which is maga.place.
In the Fediverse, independent servers automatically synchronize with each other to publish their content. However, it is possible to cut the link with another server to avoid its publications from showing up on our own server.
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No, actually they have their own server which is maga.place
I see that now. I misunderstood how they were hosted.
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Yes, please.
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Is the sky blue? This is why the fediverse exists.
Although it would be jumping the gun a bit too soon, you have to let them incriminate themselves. Give them a few weeks and enjoy watching them wasting their time trying to appear to be good faith participants. Then clamp down on them hard when the inevitable hate starts spewing out. Be quite upfront about what you are doing, in fact warn them and their users they will likely be defederated in the future due to the expected devolution of discourse from anyone identifying themselves as such.
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Isolate them
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Yes! Let them be pariahs if they're going to spout that shit
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Yes. Build a wall.
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And make MAGA pay for it!
proceeds to send them the invoice
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Good luck with that - Trump never pays his bills, & I expect no different from MAGAts.
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Get them the fuck out of here
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Yes, please.
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Yes, this shouldn’t even be a discussion. There’s no room at the table for fascists.
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aye
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any instance they label themselves maga are usually up to no good, its a launch point for trolling/russian backed propaganda.
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Have there been any infringements of Lemmy.ca's rules [1] by users of Maga Place [3]?
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The paradox of tolerance is a philosophical concept suggesting that if a society extends tolerance to those who are intolerant, it risks enabling the eventual dominance of intolerance; thereby undermining the very principle of tolerance.
- Wikipedia
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How do you determine the threshold for when it can no longer be tolerated? How do you put this into use without being the very thing you are trying to eliminate?
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Maybe it’s difficult to establish a precise threshold, but Nazis in general and MAGA in particular are way beyond any reasonable one.
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Probably when they weaponize tolerance of their intolerance to further their intolerance and cause objective harm.
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Its pretty easy to spot
The Moment someone tells me what to do, without telling me in what way my actions are actually hurting someone else, I tell them to fuck off
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Yes please, no point in taking any chances.
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I vote yes.
We don’t need to federate with a safe space for spreaders of hate and conspiracy theories.
At worst, that instance will become another Grad with trolls that piss everyone off. At best, it’ll be a cluster of people and content I’m just going to block anyway.
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ArtemZ
FYI, their single mod/admin uses slav name Artem + Z letter associated with pride in russian modern war efforts. I don't think it's genuine. Probably a prep for some concern trolling campaign in the future or whatever that was discovered (c/antifa) by a shitposter, or, I suppose, their alt persona for different usecases.
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It is super clear to me it’s just a troll. A committed troll.
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1 user
Lol
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Defederate from 1 user? 🤣
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If Nazi.whatever pops up Id want to defederate from that too if they had 1 member
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To be fair, there's @fuckamerica@maga.place that's been a real trooper on that instance and posting anti-fascist stuff all over the place. The whole instance has been flooded by them lol!
Maybe that's what we should do, just turn it into an anti-Maga instance by flooding it with anti-fascist posts and comments.
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lol 1 user! Yes, by all means, block and defederate.
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Excise a stage 1 cancer?
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They are heavily moderating and removing any counter argument. So: YES, defederate!
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Tbh Lemmy.ml is pretty famous for that as well, so if THAT is the reason, perhaps defederate from both?
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Yep. Fuck em
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Uhh... duh? Is that even a question? Of course we should ditch the chuds LMAO
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yeeehuuupppp
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Guy from US here ... This is our cancer .. get away from the stupid .
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Cut that fediverse invasion contingent out.
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No one should ever tolerate intolerance.
Yes, get them the fuck away from us.
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Preferably but I can block it easy enough but I’d love it for this place not to get overrun with those annoying, pathetic fucks
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Yes lol, lemmy shouldn't be accepting of these kinds of people. Accepting fascists onto your site is how your site gets ruined for the marginalized groups who have made it their home. It doesn't matter how civil they pretend to be, don't give them an inch
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Let them incriminate themselves first
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Fuck the magats and their orange narcissist god. Canada doesn't need to have ANY association with them and their trade war against us.
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Looks like it.
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B-B-BuT tHe ToLeRaNt LeFt!!!
It's not now or never, but why wait?
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They have mistaken the left's tolerance for weakness. Now they will find out that we can fight, too.
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Yes wtf
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Visiting the server is confusing. The only MAGA bullshit i can see is the title and logo, the sole account has posted all antifa and "hard left" content as well as being a \c\antifa moderator.
Maybe it's a legitimate "hard left" or maybe it's a wierd attempt at a false flag "the left is our enemy" construction.
Could someone more knowledgeable on US politics, with more articulate critical skills than me, give a more detailed breakdown of this content structure?
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It looks like there are only 3 communities; a meta for the server, Israel, and ANTIFA. The server owner created the first two and the antifa one is created by a troll who has made most of the posts on the server with the single exception of one post the server owner made to the meta community (an RIP charlie kirk post).
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I would. That's the advantage of federated social media. They're welcome to their little corner of bullshit, and rest of us don't have to listen.
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1 user?
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Yes
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I don't get that place. It looks like there are 2 users, and the mod is posting lefty articles and the admin seems to be in opposition to that coming from the right.
example: https://maga.place/post/1084
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All the posted content is antifascist or anarchist leftish stuff. Seems like the first user has decided to make this MAGA site as offputting as possible to actual MAGA, or to attempt to expose them to saner views. If it becomes a real MAGA space then defederate, and in the meantime pass the popcorn.
On second thoughts, just block it.
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Yes please! 🇨🇦
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I am saying to not defederate. This instance of the Lemmy is entitled to benefits of white Western culture such as the cloud computing, subsidized fiber communications, and language. As great leaders such as President Putin have said, there is no need to fear for degenerates will be stomped on by the heel of righteousness.
Also I am a loyal member of the Canada who am a socialist and having the blue hair where I work at your Canadian Tire.
(/s)
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4/7, needs more usage of the definite article
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Flush the turd (imo)
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This will be unpopular but I wouldn't defederate it just for having shitty politics just like I don't believe in defederating the "Tankie" Lemmy instances for their politics. As long as they're not shitting up the rest of the lemmyverse like the way r/The_Donald used Reddit like a fleshlight from 2016-2019 they can have their little corner, who gives a fuck.
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You're right, that will be an unpopular opinion, because MAGA have proven every chance they can that they will not keep to themselves. Over and over again, every chance they get, they try to push their insane feelings and religion and bullshit onto everyone else.
We're watching the Paradox of Tolerance in real time, and yet there are still people like you going 'well as long as they're intolerant but don't try to spread their intolerance it's probably fine.'
The entire point is that they're intolerant, they're not going to keep that to themselves.
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They don’t stay in their corner, all they do is seek out pathetic arguments because they’re loser narcissists. And they can’t stand each other because they hate themselves so they always spill out of their echo chamber
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We know with 100% certainty that they will indeed shit up the rest of the fediverse.
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Fuck yeah! Let them stew in their own cesspool.
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Yes? Like why even ask? But yes.
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We heard their ideas enough. Yes, we wanted to help free these people from their delusions before by really, truly hearing them out without judgement.
The time for that has passed. We are at WAAAAR!
Get rid of them!
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... it has 1 user total with 2 posts. Can we stop with looking for outrage or smthing? Are you a troll OP? Because the MagaPlace looks like a troll.
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Is there some glitch in the viewership stats, or is that really how many users they have?
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The instance is only a few hours old, maybe less. No one else than the admin has registered so far. It will probably stay that way lol
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One person has registered and is diligently posting antifascist and anarchist content, and the admin is arguing with them, which is amusing.
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Not now that multiple instance admins have told everyone they exist.
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I really dont like maga at all but they should have theyre own place as well.
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They’ll still have their own place, we just won’t have to deal with them. Defederation doesn’t remove their instance, it just means their content won’t be shared with us.
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Thats cool
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I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, "no. get out."
And the dude next to me says, "hey i'm not doing anything, i'm a paying customer." and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, "out. now." and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed
Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, "you didn't see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them."
And i was like, ohok and he continues.
"you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it's always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don't want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.
And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it's too late because they're entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.
And i was like, 'oh damn.' and he said "yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people."
And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven't forgotten that at all.
— Transcribed from a series of tweets by @iamragesparkle
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It's called hell.
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Should we migrate existing conservative comms there?
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Oooo somebody doesn't want to be deported
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That implies that it is a "conversation comm", which it clearly is not.
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At this time, I vote no as it's better for users to block the instance.
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No, because downvoting them to hell is a stronger disincentive than forcing them into their own echo chamber.
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You can do that from Lemmy.zip
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No. This place is an echo chamber and I like diverse opinions.
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I like diverse opinions too, but like "lower taxes are good for the economy" not "climate change is fake" or "trans people are all pedos and should be put to death".
Fuck their opinions.
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Yeah these aren't opinions. They're stupidity, falsehood, and hatred.
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So you want the same echo chamber conservatives put themselves in? You see no value in knowing your enemy?
There's certainly value in seeing what the other side actually says vs. the rage bait we see on social media. Used to have a conservative friend, and holy shit, the things he thought all liberals believed was shocking.
And from the other side, I don't know a single conservative that hates trans people. Yes, the majority opposes transition, but that doesn't translate into murderous hate. They think they're being reasonable. Anecdotally, there was a trans woman working the paint counter at Home Depot for years, in my dark red county. Think if the hate was so universal she could have held that position, if not having her ass beat on the daily?
Anyway, you get my point. Saying all people in $group are X, Y, Z is how you get vile ideas like racism. And yes, I understand the paradox of tolerance. Told my MAGA neighbor to fuck himself and that his wife was a fat, froggy little fascist.
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Somebody here hasn’t heard of the paradox of tolerance.
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You're not on Lemmy.ca
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I see it as an opportunity to convert them.
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If they're still maga at this point they are beyond redemption. Fuck them.
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Wanting to convert them is a noble pursuit, but you need to understand what you're up against. MAGA is a cult, and you need to treat it as one.
Here is one article giving some pointers about how to reach someone in a cult.
One of the big things you have to keep in mind is that rational arguments won't work--their beliefs are inherently irrational, and they have ways of deflecting anything that contradicts them (e.g., "fake news").
Because of this, discussions over social media are incredibly ineffective. Reaching someone in a cult involves building a foundation of trust, which needs to be done one-on-one or in a small group setting, and needs to have something other than the context of your differences.
I see remaining federated as more likely to cause additional friction and division. I urge you to continue reaching out to any MAGA you can connect with on a personal level, but don't try to convince someone online with a rational argument. There are better ways to spend your time and energy.
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Haha. That's the mistake the left keeps making. They think a cult can be reasoned with and keep giving them a platform to talk to them and spread their gospel. Thinking logic can beat faith bases hatred attributed to a higher power. That's why they keep expanding.
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You can pick a given idea and turn them now and again. No, they simply can't pull a 180, but I've had much success bringing people around on a given idea.
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No. Hearing and understanding opinions with which we disagree is part of being a functional adult.
If we end up having a situation where they spam with hate speech etc, that's different but just being conservative? I'd like to hear what they have to say.
John Stuart Mills put it better than I can:
He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side; if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion.
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The quote from Mills assumes the "other side" has reasons, or is willing to argue in good faith.
I have no problem with conservative communities. MAGA isn't just a conservative community, it's a hate-driven cult. We already know their reasons, they have nothing else to contribute to a meaningful discourse.
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I'm so bored of this "but we need to listen to the opposing view" bullshit. We know what the maga fascists think, we will learn nothing new by putting up with their crap.
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I don't think in our context the point would be to seriously consider the other side. Rather to hear what they're on about at the moment purely informatively. But if most don't want that the rest could use alts to check on the crazies.
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it’s a hate-driven cult. We already know their reasons, they have nothing else to contribute to a meaningful discourse.
You know, they say much the same about us.
Almost like the way to resolve the situation is actual dialogue rather than just seeing the worst of each side getting thrown up on social media.
For every asshole in MAGA gear that we take as a fair representation of the group, there's some kid talking about how the only good MAGA person is six feet under and making it look like everyone on the Left is ready to kill anyone who disagrees with them.
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Why should anyone be forced to listen to Nazi bullshit. Fuck magats. Nazis have only one place in the world, 6 feet under.
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You know they're just going to ban anyone who goes in there, that isn't MAGA, right?
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I dunno, a quick look through the admin seemed like they were open to stuff with which they disagree. (Looks like one of us was already there trolling and the admin seems to have responded in good faith.)
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Mills didn't live through fucking First and Second World War.
Less well known is the paradox of tolerance : Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies ; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most imwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force ; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument ; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself out- side the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.
Popper, Karl R. The Open Society and Its Enemies: Volume 1, The Spell of Plato. Routledge, 1945
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MAGA and “just conservative” are not the same.
Self-labeling as MAGA is denoting full cult of personality and fealty to Trump. Add the online-ness element, plus the small size of Lemmy in general, and you’re concentrating that presence into a toxic sludge that seeps into the rest of the fediverse a la 4chanXhitter trolls.
“MAGA” is not going to change their minds on anything, nor are they looking to meaningfully change ours. MAGA does not argue in good faith, or based on rationality or policy. Red-hatters enter non-red-hat spaces for the purposes of intimidation, feeling superior, and sowing discord. Then they pat each other on the back for “owning the libs” and continue the cycle.
It’s perfectly reasonable to not want to federate with relentless trolling and become a Nazi bar by means of association.
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Red-hatters enter non-red-hat spaces for the purposes of intimidation, feeling superior, and sowing discord. Then they pat each other on the back for “owning the libs” and continue the cycle.
It’s perfectly reasonable to not want to federate with relentless trolling and become a Nazi bar by means of association.
Declaring what they'll do before they've done it is pretty silly. Sure, if that instance starts becoming a problem, defederate. But maybe we can hope for the best first?
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I was going to say something about wanting to avoid echo chambers and then... I read the post history from the admin over there. sighs
I think it's appropriate to defederate. Doing so doesn't stop their admin, or anyone else, from creating an account on any other instance. Play by the rules of civility in the fediverse and no worries. If they can't, then it will be dealt with via bans.
If they want a maga island to themselves, then so be it.
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The 1990’s called and want to know if you’ll be a guest on Rush Limbaugh. You won’t actually get to say anything, so no pressure.
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Sure. Any chance to get his audience to hear an alternative version. The number of conservatives with whom I chat in real life who have just never heard of various things kind of blows me away. My good buddy was on the "yeah but the Left is more violent" train, we talked about it, I showed him things he hadn't seen and vice versa. We both learned, grew and revised our opinions.
Same thing could happen for Rush's audience.
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241 comments
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Will piefed.ca follow suit?
piefed.ca is also set to auto-defederate from any instance defederated by: lemmy.ca.
Let’s go!