Jerkoff

Lol... Their ancestors only lived there after they ethnically cleansed the people who were already living there. They've been doing this crap for a long time.

Edit: to clarify, I'm talking about the Jewish people of Israel

When you say "they," are you referring to all humans throughout all of human history? Not conquering/displacing people is a much more recent international norm
- More of a recent virtue signal we've been propagandized to believe, while continuing the conquering and displacement without skipping a beat.
  While the west was writing the UN declaration of human rights, they were hard at work creating the state of Israel, directly denying Palestine their right to democracy and displacing a million of them.
  At the end of WW2 America, and the rest of the anglo-allies, assisted France in trying to reclaim their colonies, rejecting hundreds of millions their "basic human right" to democracy; all of this went on for decades after the declaration was ratified, as if that meant anything.
  Human rights don't apply as long as you are labelled a communist, terrorist, separatist, extremist, pedo, etc, etc. Then they can torture you in a black site all nice and legal.
  Most of our history has been written by sociopathic criminals.
- Not true. At least not for the Muslim conquest of the Levant according to Ben Gurion, Israel's first prime minister:
  “The fellahin are not descendants of the Arab conquerors, who captured Eretz Israel and Syria in the seventh century CE. The Arab victors did not destroy the agricultural population they found in the country. They expelled only the alien Byzantine rulers, and did not touch the local population. Nor did the Arabs go in for settlement. Even in their former habitations the Arabs did not engage in farming…their whole interest in the new countries was political, religious and material: to rule, to propagate Islam, and to collect taxes…the Jewish farmer, like any other farmer, was not easily torn from his soil…Despite the repression and suffering the rural population remained unchanged.” [7]
  Ben Gurion is quoted by Shlomo Sand in his book https://blogs.umb.edu/joinercenter/2012/10/09/review-of-shlomo-sand-the-invention-of-the-jewish-people-london-verso-2009-translated-by-yael-lotan/
- The ancients very much understood the value in just changing leadership. So conquering yes, genocide? Usually only when religion is involved.
According to the Bible, yes. Which is most likely not true. Remember that Zionism started as a secular movement, with religious people getting more (very) on board relatively recently
- Interesting... Is there more accurate information about how the Israelites ended up in that region? Did they just never do the whole Egypt thing?
This is according to their own religious texts which can be found in the Bible as well. A religion of genocide that instructed on brutal racial slavery.
- Pretty sure they believe it did
What? Who are you talking about here?
- The Israelites conquered Canaan from the Canaanites who were already living there.
- Israel. According to the bible, the hebrews conquered the area and killed a lot of people living there
- They’re referring to Native Americans

Zionism is inherently racist. This movement has nothing to do with Judaism. One of the greatest misdeeds of the Netanyahu regime - tho it pales in comparison to their other misdeeds - is to present their inhumane actions as the Jews' point of view. Israel's strategy in the last couple of year was to portray all completely justified criticism of Zionism, and especially of the state of Israel's inhumane approach to its realization, as anti-Semitism. There is no truth in this whatsoever. Zionism is not Judaism and the state of Israel does not stand for the Jews as a religious group - these days Israel only stands for a criminal regime that murders helpless people and breaks international law. This is not about religion, but about crimes against humanity committed by a sovereign state, by Israel, their criminal regime and all their henchmen.

Religion is certainly a powerful weapon in politics which is especially obvious with the trump situation. I agree that Israel don't represent them but I could definitely see how they can use it for their own agenda and some religious people will happily support them and their propaganda.

A unified and stable middle east would be and would have been a global superpower with the ability to influence independent control over major global trade routes and energy supply.

This is why the Israel is and has been imperative to U.S. foreign policy.

Money, guns and oil baaaabbbbyyy. Everything else is propaganda and distractions
- Thanks, Dr. Rockzo!
- Yet Jews and Muslims lived in relative peace with each other in Jerusalem for long periods of time. They don't have to fight. The fighting mostly comes to them. Anyone claiming it's because the religions must fight is lying or mislead. I don't know which you are, if that's what you're implying.
- Far less inter-secular conflicts there before the WW1 promise of not dividing the region up amongst European empires was broken.
- Peace and harmony ?
- They did before Europeans took over the area post ww1

The jewish people have never wholly owned that area. Persians, Arabs, and many other races have also always lived there. It’s literally in the bible.

Also remember that the bronze age Jews were not at all special among the tribes of the area, their story about themselves is aggrandizing fiction that all the tribes did, it's just the Jews' stories survived and became popular
Also bronze age. Those that left left so long ago, the only right they have to the place is military might and the legal right given based on lobbying and the racism of the law makers in question.
- Iron age, the Hebrew age of myth was set during the bronze age and in the immediate period of the bronze age collapse. Moses was bronze age, david was post bronze age collapse, the first diaspora was during the early Iron age, and the second diaspora was during antiquity.
  Sorry if im being anal about it but one of the few good things about the old testament is that it tracks the evolution from bronze to iron pretty well, also Cyrus the great works as a solid historical reference point. But yeah there was about 700 years between the end of the bronze age and the end of the first diaspora, and about a thousand years to the second diaspora. For reference the Roman empire still existed seven hundred years ago.
The bible that has how many version and retellings?
- They genocided the Canaanites in all of them.
  There is historical/archaeological/genetic evidence.
  That was how they stole that land in the first place. By murdering every man, woman, child, and animal in the land.
- If you're using the old testament to say they lived there then you cannot ignore the old testament saying other people lived there too.

No. The real reason is to keep an ally in the very Muslim middle east and because they believe that it's a prerequisite for the rapture.

At this point, I don't think anyone involved believes in a loving God, or even a God that will punish sinners. Neither of them would want this.
- Oh, they figured their way out of that painted corner a long time ago. All they need is Matthew 5:17 and the Old Testament in order to justify any atrocity.
  Whenever they are tired of the whole love thy neighbor/turn the other cheek/cast no judgements side of Jesus, they just bring up Matthew: he didn't come to DESTROY the OT law he came to FULFILL it!
  That's all it takes to make it OK for them to smite enemies and hate people for their sexuality.
and im sure the oil deposits sweeten the deal too

Linus Torvalds - ban Israel developers from linux

Oh, shit, the Mossad would absolutely do that, huh
Israel isn't knee deep in an information war against the US and Europe, is it? The ban didn't happen because of the war against Ukraine. It happened because of the ongoing cyber war against democracy.
- Israel isn't knee deep in an information war against the US and Europe, is it?
  Um, isn't it? If anything, they are worse than Russia on this count.
- Ummmm
  Pegasus: French President Macron identified as spyware target
  Or my personal favorite
  https://www.businessinsider.nl/jeff-bezos-phone-hacked-saudi-crown-prince-mbs-report-explained-2020-1
- Israel isn’t knee deep in an information war against the US and Europe
  You're right, they're trying to spread their pro-genocide propaganda all over the world
- Israel doesn't currently have sanctions pending against them that the Finnish government has a vested interest to enforce.
  They should, don't get me wrong, but I don't believe Linus' decision is rooted in politics - they'd have to vet each contribution anyway.
- Dude, be fuqin real.

"their ancestors"

The first Jews to move to Palestine were European Jews, they can't use the "our ancestors" card.

Dude, jews have been living in israel all throughout history. They've been forcefully expelled from the country by the various empires which have conquered it but there has always been a jewish presence in the land. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_Judaism_in_the_Land_of_Israel
- And there wasn't a problem until the Europeans came and decided to fuck the place up.
- See my reply to someone else, the Jews that moved to Israel after WW2 were Jews of European origin.
- The fallacy of this never ending debate is kinda displayed when there's stories in the bible where God tells the Jews to displace the Canaanites and take their land.
  Can we just, not?
I don't understand. They're talking about Biblical era ancestors
- DNA tests show that their ancestors mostly have the same markers found in southern Italian or Sicilian populations.
  If a Japanese converts to Judaism, can they claim that their ancestors used to live in Israel? Well, the same logic applies to the European Jews that moved to Israel. They then convinced Jews that are actual descendants of the Levant populations to move to Israel with them, but the first settlers didn't have Israeli ancestors, or didn't have more of them than any other Joe Schmo from Southern Italy

In addition to the first Israeli migrants being Europeans, they displaced the actual indigenous population that was native to the land. The Muslim and Christian populations are mostly descendents from ancient Israelis that converted.

Israel is basically just the US, which is why they're such strong allies. They have the same roots.

they displaced the actual indigenous population that was native to the land.
They also sterilized a bunch of Ethiopian and Mizrahi Jews, on the grounds that these non-European ethinic cohorts were having too many kids.
Incidentally, Israel government has been grappling with a big childlessness crisis which threatens to tank their Jewish population.
One big reason for the genocide in Gaza (which has been in effect since 2006, but recently hit a fevered pitch) is that - despite their best efforts - the Israeli government has failed to neuter the Palestinian population growth rate.
So much of Israeli policy boils down to white nationalist eugenics.
- Source (on the first bit in particular)? I mean, that's easy to believe, given the behaviour of other European colonists in other places, but also not the kind of thing I'd want to claim without references.
- We're talking about the first migrants to Israel. Indigenous Jewish people didn't migrate to Israel, did they?

Lol I thought this was a Mormon meme at first

Urim and thummim pilled

Very good point.

Settler colonial re(de)colonize colony USA!

Ask for Manhattan back in exchange for returning the blankets and beads
- Out of the kindness of my heart I will be donating smallpox blankets to the NYPD even if they don't return Manhattan

Don't I deserve to seize my childhood home, or the one I sold last week? no anti-semitic replies please.

Common hamid W

Fuck Israel and America

They didn't even live there, they are foreign LARPers who hate Arabs

It’s the same bs Russia uses to validate their invasion and theft of land like Crimea

Not really, it's just a thinly veiled excuse so that any criticism of our current neocolonialist policies can be treated and swept up under the rug just like centuries before, except the rug is painted in the color of supposed religious intolerance (oh shit, guess I still can't be atheist in the 21st century).

This is a weird comparison. Native Americans were the victims a of horrific genocide similar to Palestinians now.

I understand it more in a way of "if you think Israel is morally doing the right thing, give native americans back their land."
- Native Americans should be given back their land just like Palestinians.
- It becomes pretty horrible if you believe that Israel is in the wrong, though, which is probably why people don't think it works
- Morality did not suddenly appear with international law and international law does not define morality now. What an ignorant take. ‘Property rights’ are made up by western colonialists to oppress indigenous peoples.

I mean, I also think American Indians have a right to live and self govern in the Americas, and likewise have a right to defend themselves in that context. They just also don't have the right to bomb and push out all the white people who were born here too. We actually do have somewhat of a two state solution with some tribes in the US, it's just very inequal and there's massive systemic problems obviously. I'm not sure this meme is quite making the point you think it is?

So the Israelis also don't have a right to commit genocide.
- No argument there. It's just unclear what point the meme is making. I agree with the message they're clearly TRYING to say.
Ok, now do the right of the US to claim and govern the territories that were taken from them by gunpoint.
- Big stick and live here, same way it works basically everywhere. But like I was born here too, both of my parents were born here, two of my grandparents were born here. Why would I NOT have the right to be part of the democratic government of the land of my birth?

Over 80% of the population of Israel was born in Israel. If you want them to leave then you're talking about ethnic cleansing, not decolonization.

So you're saying the people in Gaza have to pull a reverse uno?
Your statistic is wrong 80% of the Jewish population were born there. Jews are 73% of the population at 7.2 million which means 1.44 million weren't born there. It isn't about leaving or kicking people out. It is about the Israeli government was founded on false pretenses, ethnic cleansing and genocide. They owe reparations to the people who lived their before. The nation shouldn't be Israel and shouldn't be an ethno-state (all ethno-states are bad) it should have been Palestinian and every one should live their peacefully like they have before

Oh snap! Gottem!!!!

I think support for Israel is based on their sharing three principle values of the west: liberalism, democracy, & capitalism.

- I've met a few fascists in my life and every one of them has referred to Israelis as "the tribe," and advocated for arming the Palestinians so they could finish what Hitler could not. Their ideology was ugly but also very unsupportive of Israel.

Native Americans are not The Chosen People. And it is antisemitic to make the comparison.

Technically the Greeks own the Earth, because Zeus has a bigger imaginary dick than Jehovah, Yaweh, Allah, Buddha or Krishna. 🤷
You say that, but . . . :
...Throughout the 1800's, adherents cited the current existence of the "red sons of Israel" (i.e. Native American) as evidence of the authenticity of the The Book of Mormon.
Adherents saw Native Americans as part of God's chosen people and they believed that preaching to them was part of the gathering of Israel which will precede the millennium. The church's long history with Native Americans is tied to their beliefs about The Book of Mormon. According to sociologist Marcie Goodman, historically Latter Day Saints held paternalistic beliefs about Native Americans needing help. Outreach to Native Americans became the first mission of Smith's newly organized Church of Christ, as the purpose of The Book of Mormon was to recover the lost remnant of the ancient children of Israel (e.g. Native Americans).
I'm going to say something probably incredibly offensive, but I have the safety of my funny online username so it's ok.
The people are only "chosen" if you subscribe to their beliefs. If you're insinuating that Native Americans aren't "chosen" either, then you've forgotten that they actually use a picture of you in the dictionary to define "hypocrite".
You are allowed to question peoples' beliefs, but you are certainly NOT allowed to take harmful action against them because they are different.
And to be perfectly clear, I am not commenting on which side of the current conflict is entitled to what. I'm not touching that conversation with a 12ft pole.
Thanks for the laugh.
The Chosen People
Found a supremist.
I don’t understand this comment - are you saying they’re a higher/better people because they’re “The Chosen People”? That they deserve the land? And how is the comparison antisemitic?
- It’s sarcasm
- Because anything and everything is anti-Semitic
Native Americans are not The Chosen People.
--Joseph Smith
Huh?

Not outside America or Israel it isn't.
Want to really show their hypocrisy, the UK has been in Ireland longer than white people have been in the US. I mean, what my country did in Ireland is foul and I think Irish people should have every right to choose their own future but the point still stands. Some Americans will call it imperialism, without a hint of irony or self awareness.