11mo ago

Teacher says contract wasn't renewed because he wouldn't use trans students' preferred names

www.nbcnews.com Teacher says contract wasn't renewed because he wouldn't use trans students' preferred names

The Wisconsin English teacher, Jordan Cernek, argues in the suit that the district violated his freedom of religion and free speech in mandating the use of the students' preferred names and pronouns.

The Wisconsin English teacher, Jordan Cernek, argues in the suit that the district violated his freedom of religion and free speech in mandating the use of the students' preferred names and pronouns.

A high school English teacher is suing a Wisconsin school district, alleging it did not renew his contract last year because he refused to use the preferred names of two transgender students.

Jordan Cernek's federal lawsuit alleges the Argyle School District violated his constitutional and civil rights to be free of religious discrimination and to be able to express himself according to his religious beliefs when it did not renew his contract because he refused to abide by a requirement that teachers use the names or pronouns requested by students.

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Teacher says contract wasn't renewed because he wouldn't use trans students' preferred names

www.nbcnews.com /nbc-out/out-news/teacher-says-contract-wasnt-renewed-wouldnt-use-trans-students-preferr-rcna166500

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284 comments

He better not fucking win. Apart from it being bigoted against trans kids, this opens the door for teachers to give kids whatever insulting nicknames they want. Call the clumsy kid the r-word? Don't violate his free speech! Call the black kid the n-word? The Book of Mormon clearly says black people are inferior! Don't violate his freedom of religion!
- He better not fucking win. Apart from it being bigoted against trans kids, this opens the door for teachers to give kids whatever insulting nicknames they want.
  Put Elon back in school and call him Cis.
  
  No need. He's already getting schooled on his own platform daily by trans, intersex, nonbinary, and cis people of all ages, sexualities, races, and nationalities.
  He's a unifier: uniting the world in opposition to his bigotry and general obnoxiousness!
- He better not fucking win because a public school teacher needs to check their religion at the door. The SC said that private businesses can practice their religion as part of commerce but this is the public sector. Kim Davis lost her case about refusing the same sex marriage license due to "her religion" and this should follow.
- Only the Spanish teacher is allowed to do that. Michael -> Miguel.
  
  Yo soy Cancun!
- We had a similar case in the UK, and the teacher lost their case after taking it to an employment tribunal. Hopefully this one goes the same direction.

Good, fuck off. He can find a new job where he's not expected to treat his fellow humans with the respect they deserve. Being wrong about the nature of reality doesn't grant the right to be an asshole even if they sincerely believe that it should.
- Since I realised it, I have never forgotten that applying basic decency to all living beings is a revolutionary act that will be resisted in various ways, including violence, by those who uphold a status quo based on forced inequity.
  
  Sucks for the violent

I mean, good. If he isn't going to do even the single most basic thing to connect with his students and meet them where they are, how can he ever be an effective teacher?
- Right? Some of these kids see their teachers more than their actual parents. Could you imagine having to deal with such blatant disrespect every day from someone that is meant to be your role model?
  
  I can, I did, it fucked me up mentally. I'm 41 now and still suffer some of the consequences of the abuse by my peers and one especially vicious teacher.

Idk man. When I was in school before everyone started coming out as trans and such, all my teachers would still ask if there was a different name you preferred on like the first day of school. And they suck to it. It didn't matter if the student was gay, straight, trans, or whatever; they still had a preferred name they liked to be called by, the teachers asked, and they respected it. I'd like to think those teachers of mine would continue this practice and not have an issue with it, but you never really know.
- That was my experience as well, but then I grew in San Francisco, which is like the gay hippie commie Mecca that the Christofascists jerk themselves off on hating. Plus we had a lot of minority students with potentially difficult to pronounce ethnic names, so that might also have been a factor.
  
  Makes sense. My personal experience with this is coming from a small Midwest city in elementary and middle school. By the time we got to high school, the teachers just knew because it was in your record by that point.
- I have young kids in school currently. At the open house, that's the very first thing they asked.
- Teacher here; this is the first thing I do on day one with new students! You want to build a classroom community of mutual respect; failure to do so makes for a hostile classroom and a wasted year.

I'm not trans.
I hate my legal name. I will change it when I'm ready to do the paperwork. Until then, everyone calls me the name I prefer.
I would have been a thorn in this teacher's side. I'm not answering to that name, asshole. I'm not writing it on any documents. I'm allowed to tell you what to call me for whatever reason I want. My mother's best friend, who I was named for, was an abusive fucking cunt to me and every time you say her name I'm reminded of her.
What a douche. Stop policing names. The only names worth policing are the ones that are remarkably dumb.
- Probably wouldn't have a problem calling Michael Mike. Would they have a problem calling someone by their birth name if it didn't follow traditional gender norms? (I knew a girl named Michael)
- I'm reminded of the story of a woman who found out a co-worker was trans and insisted on calling them by their birth-name in order to "honor their mother" despite being told by supervisors and HR not to.
  This same woman was married and got very upset when called by her maiden name.
  She did not see the contradiction.
  
  Every once in a while I'm confronted with something like this and I have to remind myself... lots of very stupid people in the world.
- nah. I think there's room. religious shit should be banned from public use (as in, use by public institutions) , and I don't think we should have a robert e lee or nathan B forest high school any more than we should have an erwin rommel elementary or a reinhardt heidrich middle school.

Yep, and good riddance.
If students do not feel respected, then they will neither give respect nor learn. You call a kid what they want to be called. Without a sense of shared community, the classroom will fail.
Additionally, there is not a religion on earth that says you can't use people's nicknames, preferred names, chosen names, or whatever. This guy can go eat a bag of Dicks.
- We had two kids my age that wanted to be called by Final Fantasy character names. AFAIK, no one had any problem with it.
  
  I had a classmate that hated her name that went by Peaches. She would politely correct each teacher each year, and it was done.
  The only time I ever saw her have an issue was with a shitheel sub who refused to call her that, and the class literally revolted. Started yelling "thats her name" and "what's your problem!" We just brutalized that dude for the whole class hour about it. Never saw him again.
  It was great.

Don't know what happened to "love thy neighbour"/The Golden Rule, but some Christians sure are struggling with that part of the Bible.
- Most Christians have always struggled with that part.
  Setting aside religion, I used to have a shitty boss who would never shut up about how the platinum rule (treat people how they want to be treated) is better than the golden rule (treat people how you want to be treated), but then would proceed to never actually follow it and never really understood how he treated people.
  People suck in general at just giving a shit about others. They just want to sound and feel like they give a shit without actually following through.
  
  People who claim that that's not already part of the golden rule don't understand the golden rule anyway.
  
  What's the platinum rule?
  I like it, sorta suggested it unknowingly previously :D
  
  I hope you find some better humans!
  
  That's the church modernization strategy right there.
  Here are the rules you should follow the rules.
  Preacher, I disagree with the rules. The rules make me feel icky.
  You should just do your best end repent and give back in another ways. By the way this month's tidings are a little light can you help us out.
- To be fair, there's a lot of contradictions in there regarding how one should treat other humans.
  For example, Jesus endorsed slavery, which doesn't seem very "love thy neighbor" to me...
  
  Small point of clarification - God endorsed slavery. Jesus doesn't say anything about it.
  
  You love them so much that you just have to own them.

What religion requires you to use someone's birth name? It can't be Christianity since people always go around calling that one dude Jesus when his birth name was Yeshua.
- Plus Jesus loved renaming people so there's that.
- Also, As a catholic or protestant you get to choose a confirmation name.
  
  Not all protestants do this, BTW.

If your religion tells you to be an asshole to kids, find a new religion. Weird how there are many Christians who don't have this problem, almost like this is not how normal people act but we have an asshole looking for an excuse 🧐
- Also weird that they have no problems with that same religion being a hotbed for pedophiles.
  
  ThAt DoESnt KoUNt!!!!1
  
  every stain is a pedo. that's my theory. they just need abused repressed ashamed children to rape.

Let's all say it together.
Your Rights. Do Not. Override. The Rights. Of Others.
It's a far smaller imposition to use a preferred name than it is to be dead named.

It's discrimination because he can't discriminate others?
Freedom of discrimination for me, but not for thee?
- then I have a right to sit outside churches and take pot shots every sunday when they let out. saying I can't is discrimination! AND infringement on my second amendment rights! and saying I should be STOPPED from doing this, rather than just not allowed, is infringement of my fourth amendment rights!
  edit: not actually planning this. you can tell because it would require waking up before noon. just that I have the constitutional right to.
  
  The USSC has ruled that there are limitations on free speech in public schools. This includes things that will significantly disrupt the general operation of the school, what is produced in the name of the school (such as a student news paper), and allows for disciplinary action, for both students and staff, in regards to maintaining professional, respectful, conduct. So the guy doesn't actually have the right to knowingly be disrespectful to students, or other staff members.

Sounds like a bigot was fired for bigot shit

Whelp, Walker neutered our teachers' unions, and the conservatives pushed for being a right to work state, so here are some unexpected consequences of that. They do not have to tell him why his contract wasn't renewed, and now he doesn't have a union backing his position. Plus, he wasn't even "fired," just not renewed.
F this teacher for creating an environment of hate.
- Teachers don't even have a union? WHY DO YOU HATE YOURSELVES SO MUCH??
  
  Because unions are villainous commie organizations who do nothing but sap your paycheck and eat god fearing children. The worst part is they have a better villain laugh than the politicians. Really they just had to be stopped!

"Teacher suing school after being fired for being purposely hurtful to students for ReLiGeOuS rEsSoNs"

Republicans: "We need to police what's taught in schools! Leftists shouldn't have the right to teach whatever they like to our children! I don't want my tax dollars being spent filling their heads with woke garbage!"
Republicans when a teacher gets suspended for teaching their views to children: "But muh freeze peach! I have the right to teach whatever I like to children!"
- Wilholt's Law proves true once again
  
  For people who haven't heard it called that:
  Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
  Frank Wilhoit

Your pastor or preacher told you to do it, not your religion. Pretty sure there's no explicit mention how to use or not use pronouns or using someone's preferred name in the bible. Language is just arbitrary, made up bullshit anyways. Let's reverse it, his name is no longer Jordan Cernek using pronouns he/his/him. Now, it Jerkin Cumneck with the special pronoun of shitstain.
Jerkin Cumneck is a dumbass. Shitstain shouldn't bring shitstain's political views to work. Jerkin should teach at a private christian academy because shitstain can be an obnoxious asshole over there without having shitstain's fragile little mind broken every time shitstain has to use words that shitstain doesn't like.

If he can't show common decency for his students, he absolutely needs to go.
- show common decency
  Ah, but isn't it persecution to tell someone who has an ideology of hatred against an outgroup to show decency to them?
  At least, that's what they're told from the pulpit and from behind the presenting desk.

"It's against my religion to use preferred pronouns"
Also that religion: hi my pronouns are He/Him CAPITALIZED please. Please capitalize them when you use them.
🤷‍♀️
- I don't view capitalized pronouns as a different set of pronouns.
  
  But you still care about their capitalization regardless
  
  If you only refer to one being in the entire universe with a capital H when calling that being He, I'd say it was a different pronoun from he.

Jordan Cernek's federal lawsuit alleges the Argyle School District violated his constitutional and civil rights to be free of religious discrimination and to be able to express himself according to his religious beliefs
Fun fact: when your religious beliefs include a mandate to trample on the rights of others based on pure bigotry, you and your obnoxious interpretation of bronze age fairy tales can fuck off.
- I also am unsure of where in the Bible it states that pronouns are immutable.
  
  It's worth noting that, in Jewish traditions, the rabbis have identified eight distinct genders, four of which could be described as trans. So this whole "man and woman, that's it and you're stuck with it" nonsense is a distinctly Christian thing. https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-eight-genders-in-the-talmud/
  
  Maybe it's one of those wacky rules in Leviticus? 🤷
  
  God changes pronouns in Genesis:
  https://lectionary.blog/2019/02/14/god-grammar-pronouns/
  
  Idk, but the lady on Fox said it was against my religion, she sounded really sure of herself, and it lines up nicely with my bigoted personality. I think this one's safe to just take at face value and assume it's part of my religion. It's what I'm told Jesus would do!!
  
  When you forget a trinity makes your god he/him/they.

Booohooo they don't let me discriminate against people I don't like! So intolerant!
- Imagine thinking religious freedom means you have the right to a religious society

Good. Who the fuck wants their children being taught by intolerant bigots? What kind of example is that setting for them? Freaks like this shouldn't be allowed anywhere near kids.

Just wanna point out, noone is threatening the teachers right to be a dick, just lost his government job over it. This is basic seperation of church and state. A member of a racist religion would be fired for trying to only teach white kids.
- He wasn’t even fired, he had his contract end. Fucking boohoo.
- It's pretty weak to begin with to claim it's his religious right to be an asshole to people. If some kid was named Alphonzious and wanted people to call him Al, but you insisted on using the name he hates instead, that's just you being a huge dick, and it's the school's prerogative to fire you for it. Gender doesn't even come into it.
  Go ahead and claim your religion requires you to be an obnoxious toolbag bully to children. Good luck finding work, shitheel.

My interpretation is there are many reasons why his contract wasn't renewed. I think he's trying to make it political by claiming he's being cancelled. He is shitty. He doesn't deserve to be a teacher. I just think this is his way to go on the attack instead of having to defend his record.
I could be wrong, but no fucking way we're getting the whole story just listening to him.

didn't know being an asshole was a religious freedom, at this rate domestic terrorism is going to be covered under religious freedom, jesus christ.
also, separation of church and state, gotta love it.
- Misgendering someone is an insult like calling someone names, or bad mouthing someone. There is no fundamental right to insult other people, even when you rationalize it with beliefs that happen to be protected.
  For example,
  I might believe whatever I want about my neighbor, eg that he is a fascist cunt, and I am allowed even to say so in private.
  But saying it to his face is like a breach of the rule of law, as is saying so to others. I might think he should be lynched daily, but saying so might well be a crime.
  You might even say that ignoring him in the elevator when it is customary to greet your neighbor, although not illegal, it is considered just rude by society standards.
  So at the very least we have a teacher being systematically rude to his students for religious reasons (or "Gender critical", all the same), thus making him a dick. See my recent comment on Maya Forstater for some quite similar case, only this asshole is aggravated because he is in a position to scar kids.
  Even if your belief is protected like religion, or you push it to be (TERFism), you have no right to violate another person's dignity because of your beliefs.
  Bigots are bitter about it, and that is why they want to destroy the constitution and the rule of law to have their way. By extension they are against some basic principles like freedom of religion (of others).
  Plus, there is research that shows that respecting pronouns is a mental health protector for trans and non-binary teenagers, so this make the teacher a perpetrator of demonstrably abusive behavior towards his students. For these reasons I believe he was quite rightly discontinued, and I would believe the same if he were outright terminated.
  
  arguably there is a right to insult people, but people who insult others aren't a protected class for employment purposes.
  
  Misgendering someone is an insult like calling someone names, or bad mouthing someone. There is no fundamental right to insult other people, even when you rationalize it with beliefs that happen to be protected.
  technically insults are protected under free speech, but there is significant incentive to prevent that from being free speech within the grounds of a school, a state funded one especially.
  Talking professionally, insulting people is just bad, and you shouldn't do that, it's a good way to get canned.
  But saying it to his face is like a breach of the rule of law, as is saying so to others. I might think he should be lynched daily, but saying so might well be a crime.
  i feel like it's also worth including that two parties might have a deep division between them, however that doesn't stop them from discussing it, at the end of the day we all believe stupid shit, and non of it really matters, the only thing that matters is that we don't kill each other, and if both parties can manage that while holding opposing beliefs this would be a functional default state for society. Specifically the one that america was founded upon. However it's also important to remember the consequences of inaction as well.
  even if we go with a religious perspective, Christianity doesn't tell you to lynch queers. Or people of other religious backgrounds. You can literally just not be an asshole about it. Just because you dont believe queer people are real doesn't mean you have to vocalize it.
- If not, you can always convert to one of the Satanistic religions and call the teacher some choice insults. Then you claim this is how things are done in your religion.
  
  remember kids, you can start a satanism club in your school if you so please to do so.
- SCOTUS already gave presidential immunity to it and espionage.
  
  for the president, yeah.

Freedom of religion = freedom to be a bigoted jerk

Sounds like he was actually kicked for being disrespectful. You can use your freedom of speech to be an ass surprisingly enough

those poor students felt awful considering not being able to correct him on top. So, highly likely a horrible teacher to begin with

I’m a transgender teacher that can’t work in public schools because I’m trans.
In fact, Oklahoma has executive ordered trans people out of existence.
Can I get news coverage please?
- Bring a lawsuit, I guess? I worry it could go up to the supreme court to decide if the law banning you from working in a school is constitutional, and I don't trust our current supreme court with that decision
  
  I’ve reached out to multiple federal agencies, and no one can agree on who has jurisdiction. And my local ACLU won’t do shit, because as you pointed out, the Supreme Court is itching to set lots of fucked up precedents.
  I took out TEACH grants - agreed to serve as a teacher for four years. After three years they ripped the ground out from underneath me.
- That sucks, but I can't say I was surprised to hear it was in Oklahoma. I'm sorry you have to live in such a backwards craphole of a state.

No "personal freedom" to violate the rights of others should exist when you are acting on behalf of the government, just like you can't advertise AT&T's service while on a call working tech support for Verizon and not expect to get fired.

What part of the Bible discussed gender identity???
- "Jesus never mentioned pronouns!"
  Literally Jesus: I am he.
- The part at the beginning where God turned the rib of a man into a person and that person identified herself as Eve.

You’re free to say whatever you want. Nobody’s stopping you. But if you choose to work a job where 80% of it is talking, don’t be surprised when your performance is measured by what you say.

Unsurprisingly this Jordan seems to be following another Jordan's footsteps ... "Jordan Peterson, the self-proclaimed anti-political correctness warrior whose refusal to use gender-neutral pronouns has sparked a vicious battle at the University of Toronto campus." Archived source
- Ironically, Jordan became seen as a gender-neutral name in the 1970s and onwards.
  
  Which has made bigots named Jordan increasingly unhappy ever since
  
  Lobsterman would judge their gender by the length of their hair then I guess. :p

Please tell me which religion he is, as no where in the bible does it say "Trans people are evil, don't believe the woke agenda", it does say however, "Love thy neighbour".

Thomas Jefferson wrote that there should be "a wall of separation of Church and State." Meaning no religion in government matters. Meaning, no tax breaks, no National Cathedral, no "In God We Trust", no "one nation under God."
Of course the people who scream about what the Founding Fathers wanted tend to ignore what the Founding Fathers really said.
- to be fair, in jefferson's case, ignoring the shit he said in favor of the shit he did is pretty well justified; they contradict each other pretty consistently.

What an unwiped asshole. I certainly hope his teaching accreditation is yanked as well.

"Your contract WAS renewed, but I don't think we used your information, like your name or identity or anything. I'm not sure how we referred to you in the paperwork, so I guess we won't be able to find it."
- After careful deliberation, we have decided that Jordan is a female name and are unable to renew your contract until you have completed an official name change to Joseph

Good. I hope the court throws out his case, and I hope he dies of natural causes, soon

Good.

Man how hard it must be to suck it up, and just do something you don't agree with because your job said to. What a fucking child of an adult.
This isn't a new debate, he chose to work in a field where he was gonna be asked to do this eventually. I have to call people "valued customers" all day and don't agree with it, I don't see how this is any harder for him to adapt to in his field. (Not that pronoun requests are frivolous and dumb, they're easy to just....do)

Ban the bully from the school where they harassed kids. It should always be like that.

Trans people should start their own religion and then claim bigots are violating their right to freedom of religion or whatever
- The Satanic Temple's Third Tenet states that "One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone" and they will go to court for you to defend that.